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| Cigaro |
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Cigaro
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| NSR Mick |
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NSR Mick
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| Cigaro |
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Cigaro
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NSR Mick
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| Cigaro |
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Cigaro
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 Posted: 12:39 - 22 Oct 2007  Post subject: |
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Thought as much. Cheers  |
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| the grim reaper |
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the grim reaper
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| stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel
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| Posted: 12:43 - 22 Oct 2007 Post subject: |
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And if found out he would be prosecuted for perverting the course of justice and would go to jail.
Having asked the question on here, it is not outwith the realms of possability that the police are also reading and will trace your IP address then look for any claims that a speeding vehicle was conveniantly stolen when the offence took place in your area. Then they start digging.
Happened a couple of years ago when a guy posted on the SV owners club that his wife had taken his points for speeding on her licence because his was up to 9 points already. They both got three months in jail and a criminal record as I recall.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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| powelly |
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powelly
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| Cigaro |
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Cigaro
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| G |
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G
The Voice of Reason
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| Pete. |
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Pete.
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| Posted: 20:26 - 22 Oct 2007 Post subject: |
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Here I have a question about this kind of thing:
If two people were sharing driving-duties, as often happens in our company, and each blamed the other as being the driver of the vehicle when the received a NIP, how would the feds go about prosecuting them?
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a.k.a 'Geri'
132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good  |
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| Itchy |
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Itchy
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| Posted: 20:32 - 22 Oct 2007 Post subject: |
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This happened and worked with Southern Pete,
He got flashed @ 60 in a 40, he said his mate from Singapore was driving he gave them a name and address that person did exist that person then sent a letter saying that person had emigrated to Canada.
The ticket went away, he was told to make this story up by a cop mate of his.
Southern Pete however is very friendly with cornwall cops , and has the ability to fix anything.
But as said Cornwall has few cameras and even fewer traffic cops and he never ventures out of cornwall (he did go to Plymouth twice and got nicked for no seat belt a few times , so instead he parks his car in Torpoint and goes to Plym on foot or via the train.
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Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching. |
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| Ichy |
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Ichy
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| Posted: 20:37 - 22 Oct 2007 Post subject: |
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| Geri wrote: | Here I have a question about this kind of thing:
If two people were sharing driving-duties, as often happens in our company, and each blamed the other as being the driver of the vehicle when the received a NIP, how would the feds go about prosecuting them? |
I think that the company has to provide records of who was driving at the time, usually by way of signing the vehicle out. I'm not sure if this is enforced legally, just from experience of the last two places I worked.
Just found this:
Company Cars and Section 172
For a limited company, RTA 1991 Section 21 (2) requires the keeper of the vehicle to identify the driver. Subsection (3) makes it an offence for the keeper to fail to comply. Subsection (4) provides a defence if the Keeper shows that he did not know who the driver was and could not have found out by using "reasonable diligence".
The sting in the tail for limited companies is in Subsection (6) which provides that for a company to establish the Subsection (4) defence it must prove that in addition to the matters in (4) the Company did not keep a record of who was driving the vehicle and that the failure to do so was reasonable.
It is being suggested that companies ought to keep such records. For example if pool cars are used, there should be a system of signing in and out. If the company does have such a system but it didn't work on a particular occasion that might suffice. There is also the sting in the tail in subsection (5) which says that where a director or senior manager of the company caused or connived with the failure to identify the driver, that person is also guilty.
The problem is that companies can be fined but can't get points - however, Directors can. We believe that most forces prosecute the company and not the Directors for failing to identify as this leads to a conviction and fine without any effort. If they also prosecuted the Directors (solely to get points put on a licence), most would fight. |
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Itchy
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| Ichy |
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Ichy
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| Posted: 20:46 - 22 Oct 2007 Post subject: |
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Yeah but If your the sole employee of a limited company it kinda gives the game away  |
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| Pete. |
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Pete.
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| Posted: 21:25 - 22 Oct 2007 Post subject: |
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| Ichy wrote: | | Geri wrote: | Here I have a question about this kind of thing:
If two people were sharing driving-duties, as often happens in our company, and each blamed the other as being the driver of the vehicle when the received a NIP, how would the feds go about prosecuting them? |
I think that the company has to provide records of who was driving at the time, usually by way of signing the vehicle out. I'm not sure if this is enforced legally, just from experience of the last two places I worked.
Just found this:
Company Cars and Section 172
For a limited company, RTA 1991 Section 21 (2) requires the keeper of the vehicle to identify the driver. Subsection (3) makes it an offence for the keeper to fail to comply. Subsection (4) provides a defence if the Keeper shows that he did not know who the driver was and could not have found out by using "reasonable diligence".
The sting in the tail for limited companies is in Subsection (6) which provides that for a company to establish the Subsection (4) defence it must prove that in addition to the matters in (4) the Company did not keep a record of who was driving the vehicle and that the failure to do so was reasonable.
It is being suggested that companies ought to keep such records. For example if pool cars are used, there should be a system of signing in and out. If the company does have such a system but it didn't work on a particular occasion that might suffice. There is also the sting in the tail in subsection (5) which says that where a director or senior manager of the company caused or connived with the failure to identify the driver, that person is also guilty.
The problem is that companies can be fined but can't get points - however, Directors can. We believe that most forces prosecute the company and not the Directors for failing to identify as this leads to a conviction and fine without any effort. If they also prosecuted the Directors (solely to get points put on a licence), most would fight. |
Well our company does keep good records of who drives what vehicle. The thing is that because of the congestion charge even though we each have our own van it's very common for two drivers to be travelling in one van if they are both working on the same site and often they share the driving duties, so the company does comply with the law by keeping records but there seems to be no such requirement for the employees.
Here's a couple of things that have happened in the past:
i) Two license holders working together long-term and sharing the driving duties. The van trips a GATSO and NIP sent to the company, who name the usual driver. He then receives a NIP and send back a letter saying he was sharing the driving with another driver. Gets summonsed to court, they both turn-up and state that either could have been driving. The magistrate finds that since either could have been driving they could share the fine and no points to either.
ii) Two license holders again sharing driving duties. One trips a red-light camera and again NIP sent out to the usual driver. He sends off the NIP unsigned and not completed with a covering letter stating that he could not truthfully name the driver since driving duties were being shared over the long-term and there was no record of who was driving what days, and neither driver could recall setting off a camera, and that he was responding with the covering letter in order to comply with the terms of the NIP. Later that driver receives a letter stating that "although we understand that a company vehicle might have more than one driver we do not consider that as sufficient grounds for not identifying the driver. We shall shortly be sending another NIP under separate cover which must be filled in and returned identifying the driver of the vehicle, or will consider bringing a prosecution for failing to identfy the driver" (or words to that effect).
The second NIP arrived and that driver threw it into the bin and never heard anymore about the matter.
The thing is, the 1st NIP gets sent to the company, who name the usual driver, who then gets a NIP. He has to either identify himself as the driver or state who was. He states that the person he was sharing the driving with was the driver on that day. They will then send a NIP to that person who has to fill it in. Supposing that 2nd person named the 1st person as the driver, what then?
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'
132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good |
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| chasman231 |
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chasman231
Renault 5 Driver
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| Hetzer |
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Hetzer
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 18 years, 174 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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