Some thoughts on ANPR

[stinkwheel]

I was watching one of these reality police things on TV last night. They were featuring a load of police 'new technology' including the vehicle mounted automatic number plate recognition cameras.

Now the example they used, the ANPR flagged a car as uninsured. The coppers pulled the guy over and confronted him with this piece of information. He insisted his insurance covered to drive all other vehicles. They told him if he couldn't prove it there and then, they'd confiscate his car.

At this point the guy started getting, in my oppinion, justifiably stroppy. Not to be deterred the police proceeded to tow impound the guys car and tow it away. It was later found that the guy WAS insured to drive the car.

Well, that's a resounding sucess for the new technology then . It sucessfully inconvenienced a perfectly innocent member of the public, subjected him to a degree of unhelpful and unecessarily condescending attitude on the part of the police officers and presumably left him to pay a charge for the towing of his car (and if not him, then the police which is ultimately paid for by my council tax).

It occurred to me that I was riding my girlfriends bike at the weekend (I am also covered to ride any other bike providing it is taxed and MOTed and I have the owners permission, my insurance policy is very comprehensive). Now at the time, it would be flagged up as uninsured. I don't carry insurance documents because a) They'll get lost and b) They'll get wet and ruined.

It also occurred to me that when my girlfriend was riding it later the same day having called through her insurance, it would probably not have filtered through to the police national computer yet.

In both instances, the police would presumably have seized the bike.

It's also the case that not all insurance policies appear on the PNC. My MZ was insured on its chassis number when I first got it. This was brought up by the police at a stop "So why don't you have this bike insured then sunshine." (yay, way to get my back up without really trying, what happened to 'Sir'?). If that happened now, I'd have been walking home.

So I got to thinking how to prevent this happening. One thing would be for insurers to get their arse in gear and start producing 'credit card' type cover notes stating that the owner carries insurance compliant with the road traffic act.

As to what else to do. I don't know. There must be lots of people having their vehicle seized by the police every week.

It would almost be worth putting in a freedom of information request to find out what percentage of vehicles seized by the police for no insurance later turn out to have actually been covered.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Rockhopper]

Even if your insurance covers you to drive other vehicles the owner of the vehicle must have it insured as well. You are insured to drive fair enough but the vehicle itself is being kept/used on a public road without insurance.

[McJamweasel]

[stinkwheel]

[iooi]

One thing is to always carry a copy of your cover note.

Would be interesting to see in cases like this who pays for the tow & storage charge should, like this case be proved to have cover. I would also think it would be fair to bill them for costs of getting to location you were going to and any other travel expences in the mean time.

While i like the idea of them targeting uninsured drivers, they do have to get it right, maybe a call to the ins co covering the person would be in order to check their cover in cases like this.... If it comes back false then add the cost to the bill
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Just because my bike was A DIVVY, does not mean i am......

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[Polarbear]

I understand stinkys points and I would be pissed off if it happened to me, but I hate people who aren't insured.

If I get hit by one of those scum bags I lose my NC. I wait for weeks to get my bike fixed. It costs me a fortune.

They don't care as it only costs them a 200 quid fine and they'll be driving again tomorrow

So while there is no excuse for rude coppers, I'm for anything that catches these fcukers.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

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[Polarbear]

[Itchy]

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[stinkwheel]

[Itchy]

it says 41000 cars stopped in Manchester =£4305000

a shade over 4 mil, you know I had a thought a few years ago that police should just be taken over by HMRC since all they seem to be these days is glorified tax collectors.

I wonder what compensation he was awarded if any at all? (seeing that NL laws self protect themselves) ,
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Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

[nick606]

Guy at works nephew was stopped by the police they claimed he wasn't insured. Threw him in the back of the car and called for the tow truck. Apparently they wouldn't let him phone anyone, but he must have phoned his mum from the back of the police car. As she ended up going down there and taking insurance documents. Got there just as it was being loaded needles to say the truck driver wasn't very happy.

It all very good this new system but it need to work effectively. I mean it not that bad if you don't need to do anything that day but if you have to be somewhere and get stopped and end up missing you appointment or whatever whos going to pay for that ?

and know wonder theres loads of people who don't get insurance as the cost of it is so much. I mean you can just get a 200 pound shitter and drive that around and get that took off you and fined and it will still come out less than the insurance price and then go and do the same and buy another 200 pound shitter.

There is no way to stop uninsured drivers. Unless there was some psychical reason to stop them being able to drive without insurance. Like you have a card (like a debt card) that you get when you get insurance that you need to swip every time you get petrol. Although that wouldn't work as there people who use petrol for off road stuff. But you get the idea.

[powelly]

Just a thought...

In the same way that by parking in a car park you accept the terms displayed by the owners could you do the same sort of thing by displaying a sign on a vehicle.

ie

By towing this vehicle you accept full and total responsibility for any consiquential losses incoured by the owner. In addition you agree to pay £500 per day hire charge.

In a case where you the owner did nothing wrong, and the error was on the side of the dvla/police/insurance company could something like this be enforced?
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Yamaha RXS 100 > Gilera Runner 50 > Suzuki SV650SY

[Itchy]

[stinkwheel]

[Itchy]

[iooi]

[Itchy]

SORN can and does go wrong, looks fine from your end as nothing has gone wrong.

a selection of when it goes wrong

https://bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=125964&highlight=sorn

Oh and the DVLA conviently forget to send you SORN reminder letters after the first year, as said if you have one bike that you use day in day out = easy,

if you had loads of them spread across the country like me it gets hard, also skipping 1-2 months then paying?,

Tax is sort of backdated also, so your tax is due Sept and you buy it Oct? , they give you a tax disc which says Sept 30 ,08.

As said it is just another job creation scheme and a forgetfulness tax, I betcha'll complain when something goes wrong, but as said many 'fines' and crimes are effectively state fraud, they have to find money everywhere , 129billion spent on the dole to buy votes is 115% of the income tax take!.

Stinkwheel puts it nicely

Reuben wrote:
The whole system is a pathetic joke. Do you think the people who do run without tax give a rat's arse as to whether they receive a letter saying theyre going to get a fine or not?


You miss the point. They will receive no such letter. The SORN system is the best thing that ever happened to people who drive without tax.

Now, you can just send off a form off instead of paying your road tax, safe in the knowledge that nobody is now looking for untaxed vehicles on the road. According to their advert, the DVLA computer has a list of all untaxed vehicles, filling in a SORN form removes you from this list and "We don't need to look HERE for your untaxed vehicle.".

The DVLA have forgotten two trueisms with regard to computerisation:

1) A database is only as good as the information you provide it with. (ie. if you feed it false information, it wont do what you want it to).

2) If you automate a mess, all you get is a faster mess.
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Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

[freestyler_onli]

But on the flip side, being a copper working on the ANPR yesterday, we took 2 uninsured immigrants off the road and set them up for deportation, so it does have it's uses.

[Mister James]

[freestyler_onli]

Note my phrase, set them up........

Doesn't mean it'd get followed through.

It's like wasps and a jam jar.

Once they're in - they don't get out.

[Mister James]

Aye - and they ruin the jam!
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>Soultrader Mister James, I bet you are a copper
>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you...

[sickpup]