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dating site scambaiting... what next ? :D

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feef
Energiser Bunny



Joined: 11 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 19:00 - 30 Oct 2007    Post subject: dating site scambaiting... what next ? :D Reply with quote
One of the downsides of running dating sites are the scammers.

They will create accounts on dating sites, and then often initiate contact with you via a card/wink/nudge/poke or whatever the relevant site mechanism is.

Despite stating they are British or American, their English is usually pretty poor, and they often avoid any questions regarding where exactly they are from, or any detail whatsoever.

After a brief excahnge, they will give you their MSN or YAHOO messenger ID (often within 2 emails) and then 'fall in love' with you in about 30 seconds before revealing that their [parents/boyfriend] were killed in a [bomblast/carcrash].

They often claimto be based in the UK or US, but happen to be working in Africa as a [model/law student on a project]. The reference to them being in Africa is probably the only shred of truth in anything they say.

(delete the [] options as applicable, all are genuine statements made by scammers I've encountered)

They claim to have now fallen on hard times since they don't have any income and need cash to get home.

This is where YOU come in...

As an aside, the profiles on the plentymorefish.com dating sites are vetted by real people, and offending articles are deleted. They also listen carefully to reports from users. This means the PMF sites are somewhat safer than other sites, as you know we have people watching out for this nonsense.

You can read the latest exchange below. Needless to say, I am not sending anyone any money and funnily enough, I DID go to uni with a John from Lagos, but I've not heard from him in over 8 years.

Quote:
[19:03] lora_vivian: baby i need this money
[19:03] lora_vivian: i need to pay some hotel bils and internert acees noiw here
[19:04] lora_vivian: but you said you can give me the money am not happy now
[19:05] [me]: sorry... if I don't have money, how can I give you it
[19:05] lora_vivian: baby just 100pounds for the bills
[19:06] lora_vivian: i love you baby
[19:06] lora_vivian: i no you can help me with this baby
[19:08] [me]: i can't promise.. but I have a friend near you in Lagos, he can maybe meet you and give you some money
[19:08] [me]: thats the fastest way
[19:08] [me]: I can phone him and he can see you tonight
[19:08] lora_vivian: baby i dont want that help
[19:08] lora_vivian: i want it from you baby
[19:08] lora_vivian: cus i love you baby
[19:09] [me]: you can have £100 now, which my friend wil give you from me. if you can wait for anothing month before I can post it to you then you can't need it THAT badly
[19:10] lora_vivian: but we just geting to another mnounth today
[19:10] [me]: i get paid in the middle of ther month.. on the 15th
[19:10] lora_vivian: today is 30
[19:10] lora_vivian: ok
[19:10] [me]: so I need to wait anoither 2 weeks before I get paid, and then how long would it take to get to you?
[19:11] [me]: so will you let me help you, by my friend?
[19:11] lora_vivian: your friend from online
[19:11] [me]: no.. my friend from university.. he's working in Lagos. He is a consultant for some of the oil companies
[19:11] [me]: he lives there
[19:12] lora_vivian: ok
[19:12] [me]: i can phone him,. and he can come see you
[19:12] [me]: he would do this for me
[19:12] lora_vivian: you can tell him to send it to the hotel maneger information
[19:12] lora_vivian: you no i dont have an account in nigerian
[19:12] [me]: the it would be better if he gave you some cash in person. I don't want to give it to the hotel
[19:13] lora_vivian: i cant get to him
[19:13] lora_vivian: how
[19:13] lora_vivian: just tell him to send it baby
[19:13] lora_vivian: dont worry
[19:13] [me]: he will come to the hotel, and meet you there..
[19:13] [me]: then he will phone me and tell me you are safe, and have the money
[19:13] lora_vivian: it not for me it for the hotel it bgills
[19:14] [me]: but then you can pay the bills.
[19:14] [me]: would you prefer dollars, sterling or Euros?
[19:14] lora_vivian: tell him to send it to the information of the hotel baby
[19:14] [me]: he's not going to send cash to the hotel. it's not safe. it's better if he see it in your hand
[19:15] lora_vivian: just tell him to tranfer it with westernunion money tranfer ok
[19:15] lora_vivian: baby this is the hotel maneger information
[19:15] [me]: actually.. he has a spare apartment in the area he works. I'm sure he could let you stay there, it would be cheaper than the hotel.
[19:16] lora_vivian: NAME,,,,,,,,IGE THOMAS ADRESS......10 MARK THOMAS ROAD STATE.........LAGOS CITY........IKEJA COUNTRY.......NIGERIAN ZIPCODE........23401
[19:16] lora_vivian: i no
[19:16] lora_vivian: but i neede to pay this money to the hotel account
[19:16] lora_vivian: ok
[19:16] lora_vivian: just email it to him
[19:16] lora_vivian: ok
[19:16] lora_vivian: and he we need the test qwestion and answer
[19:17] lora_vivian: qwestion.....lora
[19:17] lora_vivian: answer love
[19:17] lora_vivian: ok
[19:17] [me]: okay.. you pack your bags.. he will come anhd see you with cash, anhd give it to the hotel, and then you will leave with him and stay at the apartment. I don't want to use western union. I want to see the banknotes in your hand
[19:17] lora_vivian: dont worry aboput me
[19:17] lora_vivian: oki
[19:17] [me]: your hotel will be paid, and you won't have to worry about bills
[19:18] lora_vivian: we alwas pay this to westernunion baby
[19:18] lora_vivian: ok
[19:18] lora_vivian: we are not paying this in cash
[19:18] lora_vivian: just help me baby
[19:18] lora_vivian: ok
[19:18] lora_vivian: i we be back in 11:pm
[19:18] lora_vivian: at night
[19:18] [me]: I'm trying.. but you don't want to be given money, you want me to send money to someone else.. someone I don't know and don't trust.
[19:19] lora_vivian: baby trust me
[19:19] lora_vivian: ok
[19:19] [me]: you ned to trust me too
[19:19] lora_vivian: i cant do anything wrong to you
[19:19] lora_vivian: ok
[19:19] lora_vivian: just belive me ok
[19:19] lora_vivian: i we be back in 11:pm
[19:19] lora_vivian: ok
[19:20] lora_vivian: just send the money i we be back and come for the information baby
[19:20] [me]: speak tp you later.. I'll phone John and let him know we'll need to speak to him later
[19:20] lora_vivian: oki
[19:20] lora_vivian: justy make it today
[19:20] lora_vivian: ok
[19:20] [me]: can you meet john and go to western union with him? then we both get what we want..
[19:21] lora_vivian: tell him to go baby
[19:21] lora_vivian: if you want help me do this for god
[19:21] lora_vivian: i told you trust me but dont trust the devil inside me
[19:22] lora_vivian: but the devil inside me is not working now
[19:22] [me]: i don't have any money right now. my friend John does, and he is not far from you. You can meet him and both go to western union and pay into the hotel account that way. then your bills are paid, and he can tell me you're safe
[19:22] lora_vivian: am with you with full of ornest and trutfull baby
[19:24] [me]: okay.. I'll speak tp you soon.. we'll get this fixed and get you safe Smile

You can see, that despite me having a bit of a windup with he/she/it, they are loathe to accept help ANY way except through Western Union.

I can't help but spot these planks a mile off, but others must not be as sharp, as people DO often get caught out by them. If it didn't work.. they wouldn't do it. If you notice any of the traits I've mentioned in here, don't believe a word that's said and either walk away, or if you're somewhat twisted like me, see if you can cost them more than just your time.

My question to you is.. what suggestions have you got that will cost them more than it costs me?
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Itchy
Super Spammer



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 19:07 - 30 Oct 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
Occupational hazard I guess , or make it like PlentyOFfish.com and have constant warnings etc ,

And or as Plentyoffish does ban EVERY IP which does not originate from a Westernised country, which means no EU, non US/Canada /Aus/HK/Singapore etc places.



But then you run a pay dating website anyway which is dubious at the very least and of course plays on people's fears of loneliness,


Hold on a second that felt like Viral marketting under the guise of asking for help, ohh you are such a bad bad man, as sites like yours should have IP banning of any non EU/US country anyway.
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McGee
O RLY?



Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: 19:10 - 30 Oct 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ban any one that uses the word baby more than 5 times in a convo Mad
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Its pronounced Jixxer!
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feef
Energiser Bunny



Joined: 11 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 19:18 - 30 Oct 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
Itchy wrote:
Occupational hazard I guess , or make it like PlentyOFfish.com and have constant warnings etc ,

And or as Plentyoffish does ban EVERY IP which does not originate from a Westernised country, which means no EU, non US/Canada /Aus/HK/Singapore etc places.


That IS an option, but even that isn't enough in some respects, with some memberships going thu US proxies.

Quote:
But then you run a pay dating website anyway which is dubious at the very least and of course plays on people's fears of loneliness,


The thing is tho, that the stats show that paid-for sites are more effective at allowing people to get a match. I don't have the figures to hand, but a significant proportion of the profiles on the Free sites are not 'serious', and have been created for a laugh, or by someone having a sneakypeak at the greener grass. With a paid site, you know that the other paid members are more liekly to be legit and lookign for someone. Ther stigma of dating sites for lonley people, and playing on that is a dated on. The majority of serious, active paid-for dating sites are professional women from late 20's to late 30s. That's not the same as the number of profiles, however, which is more a 60/40 male/female split, but the men seem to be less sincere, and there are more 'fun' profiles than relationship profiles from men.

As it is, dating sites are now becoming used by single profesionals, as that sociodemographic group grows. By the time you're in your late 20's and 30's, your group of friends has become generally static, and the opportunity for meeting new people with the busy lives we lead is somewhat reduced. That's where dating sites are becoming popular. It's not thru sadness or lonliness, but for convenience.

Quote:
Hold on a second that felt like Viral marketting under the guise of asking for help, ohh you are such a bad bad man, as sites like yours should have IP banning of any non EU/US country anyway.


It wasn't marketing (althoug I confess to a bit of keyword linking), as I really DO want to see if I can rip off this scammer. Just for once, do it to them.

Ip banning non EU/US sites would be hard, since we currently cover the US, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, Australia as well as the UK, with plans for India and other eastern countries over the next few years as they are emerging markets. We DO separate out the databases, however, so you don't see irrelevant profiles, but the scamers still find ways of registering.

a
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Itchy
Super Spammer



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 19:28 - 30 Oct 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
feef wrote:

As it is, dating sites are now becoming used by single profesionals, as that sociodemographic group grows. By the time you're in your late 20's and 30's, your group of friends has become generally static, and the opportunity for meeting new people with the busy lives we lead is somewhat reduced. That's where dating sites are becoming popular. It's not thru sadness or lonliness, but for convenience.
a


Oh don't get me wrong I have no time whatso ever for dating and I don't see a stigma about it. Though I have a tendancy to be stalked somewhat frequently (IRL btw). Long hours and the big pile of work I've taken out my paniers contribute to this.

Pay dating sites have the trap of waiting for a bus, in that you wait its 5 minutes late you think it'll be just another minute or two , but keep on waiting, and thus keep on paying , and there is no way in the world there is a 60/40 ratio of men/women women/men its usually 25-1 or worse with iffy business models where inactive users are still counted as active users and signing up blind.

Thus it is why I particularly don't like them.

Ie the Robert Newman joke,

A mate asked me out to go to the pub, I didn't want to go but I had this iffy vision of myself and my wife in 50 years time thinking and to think I nearly didn't go to pub that night, at which the joke is escalated where he walks home in the morning from a Satanists convention still thinking the same things and thus its exploitative.
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feef
Energiser Bunny



Joined: 11 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 11:02 - 12 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
Itchy wrote:
there is no way in the world there is a 60/40 ratio of men/women women/men its usually 25-1 or worse with iffy business models where inactive users are still counted as active users and signing up blind.


Itchy, mate.. sorry, you were right. We're nowhere near 60/40

we're currently operating at 54% men and 46% women.

All are active, and paid memberships.

considering the UK population is split 51/49 for our target demographic and we're at 54/46 I don't think we're doing too badly

https://www.statistics.gov.uk/populationestimates/svg_pyramid/uk/index.html



a
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powelly
World Chat Champion



Joined: 29 May 2007
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PostPosted: 11:42 - 12 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
feef wrote:


Ip banning non EU/US sites would be hard, since we currently cover the US, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, Australia as well as the UK, with plans for India and other eastern countries over the next few years as they are emerging markets. We DO separate out the databases, however, so you don't see irrelevant profiles, but the scamers still find ways of registering.

a


Why not IP ban based on on geographic location, ie if during the registration process the user states they are in the US, you only allow log in's from us based IP's?
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feef
Energiser Bunny



Joined: 11 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 11:47 - 12 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
powelly wrote:

Why not IP ban based on on geographic location, ie if during the registration process the user states they are in the US, you only allow log in's from us based IP's?


because many professionals (our target market) do a lot of travel both personal and business and, as they are on the road so much and rarely in their country of residence, they'd never be able to log in.

what we DO do, is that those people who registed from 'dubious' countries are vetted more closely. There's a large ex-pat contingent in Nigeria, for example who work for oil companies. They will be out there for months at a time, but are still very much british and live in britain. Simply banning registrations from those countries are explicitly preventing those people from joinging, who happen to be our exact target market: ie professionals with little time nor opportunity to get out and meet others.

a
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powelly
World Chat Champion



Joined: 29 May 2007
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PostPosted: 11:49 - 12 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
feef wrote:


because many professionals (our target market) do a lot of travel both personal and business and, as they are on the road so much and rarely in their country of residence, they'd never be able to log in.


Sounds like a sales oportunity for a Premium account!

standard users, limited to their own geographic region, Jet setters pay a little more and can access all users in any of their selected countrys
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feef
Energiser Bunny



Joined: 11 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 11:53 - 12 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
powelly wrote:
feef wrote:


because many professionals (our target market) do a lot of travel both personal and business and, as they are on the road so much and rarely in their country of residence, they'd never be able to log in.


Sounds like a sales oportunity for a Premium account!

standard users, limited to their own geographic region, Jet setters pay a little more and can access all users in any of their selected countrys


we just have extra vetting. it's easier than changing the billing model Smile

a
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sickpup
Old Timer



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 14:29 - 12 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
Credit card payment to check which country the card is registered in then refunded immediately.

Being used by a lot of Gambling sites now after the US got greedy.
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feef
Energiser Bunny



Joined: 11 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 14:32 - 12 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
sickpup wrote:
Credit card payment to check which country the card is registered in then refunded immediately.

Being used by a lot of Gambling sites now after the US got greedy.


that doesn't worki on a site where it's free to register
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sickpup
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Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 14:40 - 12 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
feef wrote:


that doesn't worki on a site where it's free to register



It does when it's refunded immediately.
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feef
Energiser Bunny



Joined: 11 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 14:42 - 12 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote
sickpup wrote:
feef wrote:


that doesn't worki on a site where it's free to register



It does when it's refunded immediately.


only if you're asking for card details.. and we find that it's a barrier to the free reg if you're asking for those details.

ultimately, adding in that stuff would be a pain in the ass as the system it already quite mature in development terms.. we can get around it as it is


a
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