The great 250 vs 400 vs 600 debate.

[McGee]

We can bring many factors into this.


But at the end of the day with equal riders on sportsbikes of the cc classes. A modern 600 will tear a 400 apart in the twisties but a 250 may be able to own both in the right area.

But with the power of the 600 it will have better drive and make it into the corner quicker being able to brake later and have more pull out of the bend than both the 400 and 250.

A modern 600 has less weight than a 400, a shorter wheel base more power they just out preform the 400 in every way in my opinion.

And with the 600 you can brake later and have more power out of a bend so it should take the 250 no problem if its ahead of the 250. Hell just force your way past

Now in a race environment the 250 will be a monster and I could see it taking on the big boys no problem.

But I'm not talking strictly race track style course I'm talking more of a mix like a road race. Sweeping bends, hairpins and long straights, a mix of stuff, like your local hoon. Mine being the gap at the moment or the Southam road back in Banbury.

In other words once the 600 has room to move its gone. And the 400s are outdated and don't stand a chance.

Share your thoughts mine are based on my own experiences.

Hell on a road course if they all start at the same time a 1000 has it done.
____________________
◙◙► K6 GSXR 600 ◄◙◙◙◙► K5 GSXR 1000 ◄◙◙◙◙► K5 GSXR 600 ◄◙◙◙◙► 96 RF600r ◄◙◙
◄◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙►◄◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙►◄◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙►
Its pronounced Jixxer!

[The Tot]

600s are set up out of the box to facilitate for use on the road and will be optimised for that. 400's will lack the power delivery of a 6 but with sorted suspension, can lead to advantages in corners. But 6's will get better drive. 250 strokers will be light and nimble, producing as much power as a 4, but needs to be kept on the boil.

In my case, i would be, fastest on my 600, faster on a 400 than a 250 stroker because i don't have the skill to make a 250 2t work well on the road.

Fact is, i did this on the hatern to coloerton run in leicestershire. I got a time of about 10 mins on my zxr250, but got it down to 8ish on my 600.

600's make everything seem effortless. To ride a 600 in as a committed manner as a 400 or 250, you'd be going at some rates, but it all boils down to confidence and skill with the right wrist. I've hardly seen or heard of any tales of people highsiding 400's or 250s on the road, but many a tale of 600 highsides - you simply cant ride them in a similar way - although with the current crop of 6's you might beg to differ.
____________________
The Tot 2019 Z1000SX - 2007 R1
Never argue with autism

[MarJay]

400's may be outdated, and outclassed in a purely statistical way, but they are as much fun, if not more fun than a 600.

Especially when you finally realise that riding on the road and racing are two seperate things McGee! {and titz, both young whipper snappers really!}

If you rode my RGV250 on a track, you'd prefer it to the 600 because its so mental. However it has no rideability on the road at all. The 400 has the rideability and the handling, and the lack of power to make the road fun again. a 600 is too fast to rag on the road. a 400 you can /juuust/ about get away with it.

Unless you intend to get citations in all states in the Union!
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[McGee]

I have had a ride on an rgv 250 and I got bored of it although I did enjoy the feeling of it, it just felt to slow and I didn't get the same rush as I do from my six and the other bikes I have owned/ridden.

And 400's are boring my gix handles much better and you don't have to push it to do any thing stupid

And riding on the road is racing Don't destroy my dreams.
____________________
◙◙► K6 GSXR 600 ◄◙◙◙◙► K5 GSXR 1000 ◄◙◙◙◙► K5 GSXR 600 ◄◙◙◙◙► 96 RF600r ◄◙◙
◄◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙►◄◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙►◄◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙◙►
Its pronounced Jixxer!

[The Tot]

To be honest, the amount of "fun" or realisation of riding committed through the same set of road bears no correlation to what is actually happening.

On my 250, i was riding at say 90% on the road, pushing it to the edge. Boy it felt exciting, fun, gave me the giggles and made the MOT tester (mark at twiggers in lufbra) have an ear to ear grin, but bears no resemblance as to how quick you can go through the road.

On my 6, it feels boring, not as calculated, feels like theres no margin for error if you cock up although i'd be riding at 75% in terms of what if feel i can achieve, yet the times suggest i was quicker!

I think on once said that 400's make the perfect compromise for british roads, but unfortunately, they are a dying breed and 600s now rule the roost.
____________________
The Tot 2019 Z1000SX - 2007 R1
Never argue with autism

[craigs23]

[G]

[Fahd]

To be honest I think we all know a 600cc bike can out-perform a 400cc one. However, firstly for the people who should be on a restricted license a 600cc is absolutely pointless. Some may argue a 400cc bike isn't the greatest idea either but they have a hell of a lot less power than a 600 does.
Also If I don't get a 400 next I'll feel like I skipped a whole 'chapter' in my biking life. Kind of like completing a game but missing a level somewhere in the middle. I also personally really ride for the rush you get from the speed and if I went straight onto riding a 600 the rush of riding a 400 for the first time after having been on a 125 would be totally missed out.
So to conclude (my opinion) a 600cc bike will out-class a 400cc in many aspects if not all of riding but not everyone wants to jump onto the biggest bike they possibly can straight away. When it comes to 250's I haven't got any personal experience so I can't really comment although the new Kawasaki Ninja 250 seems nice enough and it probably quite a lot easier to chuck around than a 400 and 600. Thanks for reading....

P.S Message to reply to G's comment:

[The Tot]

TBH, when that kwak ninja250 came out, i was disheartened. It was like a dagger to my heart. It is NOTHING like what they are capable of. You might as well get a derestricted mito or NSR125. A 4 stroke parallel twin in a budget chassis is no way going to be exciting! I felt they should have released the ZXR250 because THAT was a bike worthy of having NINJA adorned on its fairing. It's going to mislead people into buying a bike with such high expectations, only to be beaten by a fast guy on a 125 ON THE ROAD! It's possibly going to be tuned to like the 60th percentile of riders. Those that have passed their test and NEED to find something restricted. I personally wouldn't bother. I don't think it looks that nice either compared to the timeless looks of the ZXR. As basis for comparison, single front disk, no adjustable suspension - yeah, as if that's going to be faster than a 600!!! unless i shove in the restrictors on my bike (which i still have), ride it back to back with the 250 on the same roads, i very much doubt the 250 will better my time since the sum of the components on 6s and quality will outrival that of that 250 so any loss in power and weight will be compensated by that. It should actually be a good thing to test out mind.

Fahd, you're not too far off mind. My mate (scribbles) on his Mito can hold his own in the twisties, where any power advantages will be offset by the weight of my 6. He was having a ball of a time whilst my bigger bike was tying itself in knots. So a 125 will actually be nice to have in that situation since you're able to have 100% attack all the time
____________________
The Tot 2019 Z1000SX - 2007 R1
Never argue with autism

[kitty kat]

[MarJay]

[crm250]

Had the following all at the same time, a 1996 RGV250SP VJ23 and a NC30 and a 06 CBR600RR

The only place the RGV rules is those smooth 30 - 50mph bends, bumpy roads the 600 has the edge thanks to its weight. the NC30 i put as the worst handling simple as.

Performance, the VJ23 had pipes, airbox and full power ECU so was pretty quick. Off the mark it was quick to 80, after that the 400 had the legs on it. first sign of a hill the 400 simply cleared off. 600 is rapid.

Brakes - CBR every time.

Fun, i got fed up with covering the clutch all the time and the overall heartache of owning a highly strung 2 stroke. as much as i miss it, i dont feel the need to own another however i enjoyed it for shortish fun blasts. The CBR is a seriously fast bike, top speed is pretty shocking and way too much for me. as a road bike its utter crap. no midrange, poor on fuel, and dare i say not that well built compared to honda's of old.
Now the NC, sure on paper its so old, heavy, slow and generaly considered quite a has been by todays standards, yet for some reason its more compelling and fun to ride than the CBR. It has a certain charm that appeals to me and for that reason i prefer to ride the NC30 over the CBR600rr which will make many of you choke and scratch your heads. However before you condemn me for being bonkers, i also have and ride a 916 and a RC30 too, so you can possibly see no why i cant get that excited over honda's 600 offering, but it does a job and thats to start and be cheap to maintain / run / fix comapred to the others

[G]

[crm250]

Yes G thats right, i cant forgive the CBR for its lack of midrange. the older FX's and even earlier models were far more suited to everyday road riding but dont forget when i took the CBR to the ring again this year it was just superb, on a track the CBR came into its own element and the same pilot on both bikes would see the CBR just leave the NC anywhere.
Not just that, the NC is old school and feels as such. its soft and you can wring its neck without fear of being pitched off. The CBR is much much firmer which doesnt make it ideal for the road unless its bone dry and hot. for weather like this the NC comes into its own, you can feel whats going on underneath you, and braking in an emergency when you go for a handfull of brake doesnt try and tuck the front again poss due to old school brakes but they work just as well.
Doesnt mean i want rid of the CBR just yet, but in hindsight it was the first brand new bike i ever bought, and i kind of wish i bought something like a SV1000 or an old RRY blade for those pillion / distance trips leaving the other stuff for fun rides

[.Chris.]

I vote 250, simply because I love tiny bikes.

With any luck next year I want to get one of the 4 stroke 250 screamers. The noise they make at 17,000+rpm is just incredible.
____________________
Chris
1985 Kawasaki Z550F

[Type_Mo]

7fiddy FTW
____________________
- Typhoon ?0 - Yamaha DT125R - Aprilia SR125 - Yamaha DT125R - Honda Hornet 600 -

[MarJay]

I reckon if the Jap manufacturers made 400's these days they would be excellent. 150kg and 70-80bhp I reckon. *that* would be a fun bike!
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[fenton]

I really like my 400, i think its an important step in a bikers life, i right of passage if you will. Its big enough to give you all the speed thrills but easy to flick around. They really arent designed for the taller of us. Im 6'2 and it does feel cramped. I agree with the statement about being able to wring its neck without fear of being offed.

But saying that, i want my next bike to be a 600 because its alot faster. Because i know i said the 400 sufices. The 600 is just mmmmm. And its another important step i reckon.

For those on a restricted licence, 400's are made of teh win.
____________________
PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME!!!!! I cannot be held liable for anything that i post.

CBR400RR NC29 ( '06 - '09 )... TL1000 RK1 ( '10 - present )

[Matt06]

I really liked my ZXR400. I want it back. I would still be on it if it wasnt for someone reversing into it.

I didnt have it restricted, but I tested it with them in. Was pretty shit at 33bhp and didnt really pull that much anywhere. Thats why I like my MT-03. Its a low power bike, but being a single it still feels fast restricted. The handling on the ZXR was awesome though. I never had a dodgy moment on that bike because it just seemed to lean and lean over without complaining.

Getting a ZX6R when gay 33bhp is over.
____________________
Current: MT-10, Bandit, Grom, GPZ500
Previous: YBR125, GSXR400, ZXR400, MT-03, NTV650, R6, z750, ZX6R, MT-09

[Charlie]

[TUG]

i dont understand your hate towards 400's mcgee. well not hatred but disgust with them, the fact of the matter is dedicated riders make the 400's fun, where as power mad riders like yourself just want a machine that is powerful to make up for lack of dedication. i've had no problems keeping up with 600's at all and i'd love a 2 stroke 250 anyday now. am in no rush to buy a 600 because i know that i'd get bored fast. theres no where around here to full throttle the 600 without being gatso'd or pulled. on the 400 i can reach over 100mph (even with my 5 out of 6 gears) and its great fun working for it.

i nearly high sided my fzr before in the wet plenty times, but never actually done it yet. lol.
____________________
Haz ER-5, innit!

[binge]

My NC30. Ok, nothing to brag about on that really. its fairly standard.

My NC29 on the other hand is fully sorted, And I used to be able to corner than alot of bikes on that. It had a CBR6 rear shock. And the Front forks had been rebuilt by Collin at 100% Susp. Dropped yokes by 15mm (yes, low) And running a 160 rear tyre gave it an even higher rear end.
That thing was so quick into the corners.

At the end of the day its whatever takes your preference. I like the look of the NC bikes. Twin headlights etc. And there aren't really any 600s that I liked apart from the New CBR RR.

[McGee]

Also there is nothing like riding a 600/750/1000 hard it can scare the crap out of you

[TUG]

ownage and its a 500
____________________
Haz ER-5, innit!

[johnsilva]