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Marcg868
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PostPosted: 09:46 - 26 Nov 2007    Post subject: Best way to tone up. Reply with quote

Basically im trying to put on the weight and muscle tone that i used to have back on.

I dont want body building results, but i do want to be a bit broader than i currently am, on my shoulders and arms etc

Now because i cant really afford the gym at the moment. Is there some decent exercise i could do at home, i only have dumb bells at the moment, so any other equipment that isnt going to cost the earth?

Also what ways can i adjust my diet, just so i can bulk up fast.

Ive been doing my weights at home now for 6 weeks and not noticing much difference apart from Veinier arms !
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AJI
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PostPosted: 09:58 - 26 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do press-ups. Buy some press up bars from argos or somewhere, that's what I did.

If you put them close together it excercised your forearms, put them shoulder width and it excercises your upper arms more, and put them greater than shoulder width apart and it does your chest more. Wherever you put them, it excercises your abs because you're using them to keep your body straight from your toes to your shoulders.

Bars are better than pressups on just your hands because it doesn't put too much pressure on your wrists, you can keep your wrist in line with your forearms which means you don't fatigue as quickly.

They only cost about a tenner so they won't break the bank.
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pa_broon74
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PostPosted: 10:52 - 26 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Press ups are good, as explained above.

Keeping them close together with your elbows tucked in to your sides (arms parallel to your body) will excercise your triceps which is a hard muscle to work on.

To develop the three heads of muscle on the shoulders I usually do dumbell push ups (sitting vertically, lifting the weights to meet above your head.) I never know what these excercises are called... Also starting with the bells held down by your sides, keep your arms straight and lift them straight out in front of you or to the side. (If you see what I mean.)

Never sure whether to do both arms at the same time or one by one, the latter is much easier. If you're looking to tone up up, lots of reps with lighter weights, if you're looking to build body mass, heavy weights/less reps and up your protein intake.

Obviously since I'm still a bit of a fat bastard even after having been at the gym for 5 or more years, you can either take this advice or leave it. Wink

Good luck. Thumbs Up
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Ahmato_
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PostPosted: 14:51 - 26 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing I can do is echo what the lads above have said. I suggest you take in as much protein as possible, but you probably already knew that.

Oh, and don't stop. I've found if I skip a night because I'm tired or something good is on the telly, its hard to get back into the swing of things properly.


GL Thumbs Up
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killa
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PostPosted: 15:36 - 26 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are some good home work out vids on metacafe.com
Some are from mens health forums and are piss easy to do, there's even one where you use a sofa!! Cool Thumbs Up
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_Will_
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PostPosted: 15:48 - 26 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eat more, do weights and a little bit of cardio, simple as that.

You want to be eating complex carbs, lean protein, good fats.
I.E fish, egg whites, chicken, wholegrains, pulses.

Weights 2-3 times a week with a 2 day rest inbetween.
Pressups, crunches, squats will all help.

To gain muscle you need to be eating lots for hypertrophy to work.

You won't get a bodybuilder type physique, its like a full time job to maintain. The above won't do that in a million years Wink
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craigie b
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PostPosted: 16:02 - 26 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, you can take snippets of advice from many people here (myself included) who have various degrees of experience, success and results. Then start everyday doing x press ups, x sit ups then get bored and disappointed that fuck all happened.

Or you can seek a world class experts advice, for peanuts IMO by simply buying one of this guys books.

https://www.rosstraining.com/nevergymless.html

https://www.rosstraining.com/infiniteintensity.html



I started this program 4 weeks ago and have noticed body mass change all ready, as long as you follow the program...may require a gym though.....

https://www.building-muscle101.com/
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st3v3
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PostPosted: 16:16 - 26 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry but I never trust all these... Supplement type diet things and body builders courses, I see it like steroids, if you don't keep to them you lose the advantage they gave, which you never really worked for, more of a "get big quick" scheme..

I prefer to work out at home as the likes of pa_broon suggested, 10 mins hard work every night can after a while show its effect and there's not much more satisfying.


Or do I have this all wrong? Laughing
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craigie b
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PostPosted: 16:22 - 26 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ross Enamit (SP?) is a world class athlete trainer, has trained some big names in boxing and knows his shit, which is sports science. There is nothing magical about his routines and advice. You work fucking hard and that's how you get results.

10 minutes a night will see you in two month with no further gains. Fact is you stop that, you lose that gains.

Point is, if your going to even waste ten minutes of your time why not make sure you do ten minutes of stuff that you know will work rather than get a bunch of half arsed replies from people on a bike forum? ANd there are guys on here who know their shit, but their advice will get diluted out by others who don't, thus giving the poor fella even more confusion!

If you don't know what will work then go find someone who does know, for certain, and get their advice.

At which point did you read supplement in my last post? All I pointed at was materials that contained training advice, dietary advice, and training routines. There's nothing magical or false about a spot of hard work.
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pa_broon74
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PostPosted: 16:35 - 26 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Half arsed replies on a bike forum might be more useful than you'd imagine. What makes you think the comments on body building forums are any more (or less) veracious?

bwfc said in the OP that he didn't want to be a body builder, just tone up. I suppose if you wanted to be a world class athlete you might take advantage of Ross Enamit's advice, but if you just want to shed the bingo wings and love handles perhaps the reasonable utterings here will suffice after all. Wink

I'd agree with the ten minute thing though, it won't be enough. 30 mins three or four times week will see results after a while. You do need to keep at it though.

I hate going to the gym but enjoy finishing, the thought of going in is crap but you know you'll come out feeling refreshed and enervated.

Obviously, my body is a temple though... Takes up the whole block... Embarassed
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craigie b
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PostPosted: 16:44 - 26 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Half arsed replies on a bike forum might be more useful than you'd imagine. What makes you think the comments on body building forums are any more (or less) veracious?


Body building forum would be just as bad with conflicting advice being thrown all over the shop.

Quote:
if you just want to shed the bingo wings and love handles perhaps the reasonable utterings here will suffice after all. Wink


I bet if issued a 100 fatties with the advice eat less and do press ups and issued a 100 skinnies with eat protein and lift weight (the basis of what is advised here) that 99% of them would see fuck all difference!

Then if you go down the 3/4 times a week route, well thats a commitment. Why not do yourself a favour and get proper advice if your going to commit to that?

lol, and on that, the 101 body building site I've only used as a starting point. I went to the gym five weeks ago and realised I had no idea what I was trying to achieve or what to do to achieve anything. Yeah, obviously lift some weights, but what's high reps? What's low reps? Should I do leg calves after biceps? How heavy should I be lifting? What's considered heavy, what's light? The list is endless then you just feel as if you've achieved feck all.

The list of questions I had was enough to put some people off. Now I could have handed 1K over to the fitness instructor, but like, I don;t have 1K so I figured the best approach was to learn about the subject matter first. Once I finish the twelve week course (a basic cycle of training to aim to peak after week 12) I'll move on a get some better advice than a free PDF of the net.

For stuff like fitness, if you are clueless, then you need one firm clea voice to guide you as anything else just brings confusion and thus more reason to quit (IMO).
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pa_broon74
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PostPosted: 17:00 - 26 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you're over complicating it, if you read the original post you see he doesn't really want to join a gym & doesn't want to be a body builder.

Quote:
I bet if issued a 100 fatties with the advice eat less and do press ups and issued a 100 skinnies with eat protein and lift weight (the basis of what is advised here) that 99% of them would see fuck all difference!


I never said that (although I would venture to say that they would see a difference.) I said:

Quote:
If you're looking to tone up up, lots of reps with lighter weights, if you're looking to build body mass, heavy weights/less reps and up your protein intake.


Amongst other things. This seems reasonable to me, if you want to be Mr Universe then yeah, its complicated. But if you just want to tone up a wee bit, then its pretty simple.

I don't think bcwf has £1k either, so he asked here. In the absence of Ross whatsispuss; having regularly attended the gym myself for the past 5 years I felt that I could share some of the info I'd picked up.

I do agree with having one clear voice though. Important to have some form of focus if you're excercising, conflicting advice detracts from meaningful progress. Thumbs Up
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_Will_
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PostPosted: 17:07 - 26 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

craigie b wrote:


I bet if issued a 100 fatties with the advice eat less and do press ups and issued a 100 skinnies with eat protein and lift weight (the basis of what is advised here) that 99% of them would see fuck all difference!

The fatties would lose weight, fewer calories in and more out means weight loss

Then if you go down the 3/4 times a week route, well thats a commitment. Why not do yourself a favour and get proper advice if your going to commit to that?

lol, and on that, the 101 body building site I've only used as a starting point. I went to the gym five weeks ago and realised I had no idea what I was trying to achieve or what to do to achieve anything. Yeah, obviously lift some weights, but what's high reps? What's low reps?

8-10 reps for 3 sets is average.

Should I do leg calves after biceps?
One muscle group at a time.
How heavy should I be lifting?
Depends on your fitness
What's considered heavy, what's light?
Again depends

The list of questions I had was enough to put some people off. Now I could have handed 1K over to the fitness instructor, but like, I don;t have 1K so I figured the best approach was to learn about the subject matter first. Once I finish the twelve week course (a basic cycle of training to aim to peak after week 12) I'll move on a get some better advice than a free PDF of the net.

For stuff like fitness, if you are clueless, then you need one firm clea voice to guide you as anything else just brings confusion and thus more reason to quit (IMO).

Best idea really is to do some reading for yourself and decide from there really, but if you want loads of short conflicting answers then a bike forums where you want to be. Laughing [/b]
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craigie b
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PostPosted: 17:13 - 26 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I bet if issued a 100 fatties with the advice eat less and do press ups and issued a 100 skinnies with eat protein and lift weight (the basis of what is advised here) that 99% of them would see fuck all difference!


I think you miss the point of that. Yeah,if adhered too, the fatties would lose a little weight and the skinnies would bulk up. However, only to a point. The fatties metabolisms would catch up with the new diet and the x press ups a day and they would stop losing weight. The skinnies would plateau very quickly too.

Due to the very fact that the advice is so limited in its scope, I doubt most would stick to it for more than 7 days. Which was my point. Armed with only a little knowledge, gleamed from multiple people, you often end up disillusioned and disappointed.

Get some good advice from one person who's done the shit then you approach the problem with far more enthusiasm and confidence.
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TUG
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PostPosted: 17:20 - 26 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

man i used to be toned, but after my accident i lost all focus, it takes dedication, and about 90% of your spare time none stop, every min u have push ups, i used to do em at work even.
i have a bench and bar and dumbells, i bought for roughly £120 and are made by York very good stuff has lasted 2 yrs and still look new with regular use. you will see results instantly too btw after a good couple of days of hard work Thumbs Up
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pa_broon74
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PostPosted: 17:46 - 26 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Get some good advice from one person who's done the shit then you approach the problem with far more enthusiasm and confidence.


I know that some people tend to post stuff up with out any experience, but I've been doing this shizzle for years: Hence I replied. If he wants a more indepth description of what he could be doing, then he can ask; even zeroing in on the person who he feels best able to offer some valid points.

Quote:
think you miss the point of that. Yeah,if adhered too, the fatties would lose a little weight and the skinnies would bulk up. However, only to a point. The fatties metabolisms would catch up with the new diet and the x press ups a day and they would stop losing weight.


I think that is the point, he's not looking to enter the olympics; just tone up a bit.

These fitness threads are always interesting in that people have so many differing ideas about whats good and whats bad. I suppose in that sense you're right; you do get conflicting messages.

However: Taking the original post at face value, my points remain valid and pertinent to the original question.

Quote:
man i used to be toned, but after my accident i lost all focus, it takes dedication, and about 90% of your spare time none stop, every min u have push ups, i used to do em at work even.
i have a bench and bar and dumbells, i bought for roughly £120 and are made by York very good stuff has lasted 2 yrs and still look new with regular use. you will see results instantly too btw after a good couple of days of hard work


Agreed, after an energetic work out, muscles can appear to be 25% larger due to fluid retention alone. Unfortunately they deflate after a few hours Rolling Eyes . (Thats when you get fired into the protein, the muscle does its building during the recovery time between work outs using the proteins to rebuild and recover.)
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st3v3
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PostPosted: 18:09 - 26 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

craigie b wrote:
Ross Enamit (SP?) is a world class athlete trainer, has trained some big names in boxing and knows his shit, which is sports science. There is nothing magical about his routines and advice. You work fucking hard and that's how you get results.

10 Mins was a ball park figure, not my actual timely investment.

10 minutes a night will see you in two month with no further gains. Fact is you stop that, you lose that gains.
Maybe, but with the time I do(which varies unfortunately) I have seen improvements.

Point is, if your going to even waste ten minutes of your time why not make sure you do ten minutes of stuff that you know will work rather than get a bunch of half arsed replies from people on a bike forum? ANd there are guys on here who know their shit, but their advice will get diluted out by others who don't, thus giving the poor fella even more confusion!

I haven't got half assed replies, most people with replies have been positive and helpful.

If you don't know what will work then go find someone who does know, for certain, and get their advice.

Good point and if I was that 'into it' maybe I would, but I'm not.

At which point did you read supplement in my last post? All I pointed at was materials that contained training advice, dietary advice, and training routines. There's nothing magical or false about a spot of hard work.
I never said you did, I merely generalized the whole of that 'type' of people who choose to take such action and choose to invest in such strategies.
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craigie b
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PostPosted: 18:54 - 26 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I never said you did, I merely generalized the whole of that 'type' of people who choose to take such action and choose to invest in such strategies.


Quote:
Supplement type diet things and body builders courses, I see it like steroids, if you don't keep to them you lose the advantage they gave, which you never really worked for, more of a "get big quick" scheme..


I'm sorry I don't get what your saying....Bulking up by weight training is like taking steriods and both are a get big quick schemes which is a generalisation of the type of people who....You completely lost me.

Well, I'm just going to add to the confusion.

Press ups, close grip press ups, wide grip press and handstand press ups will tone up your chest, shoulders, biceps and triceps. Do not expect to see any bulk gains though as your muscles quickly adapt to bodyweight.

Work your triceps doing dips on the front of chair. The further your feet are from the chair the harder the dip.

A chin bar is the daddy of home equipment and will tone your arms and back rapidly. Leave it up and you can use any time you walk past.

None of these will build bulk muscle, to do that you need heavy weights and you need to increase the weight to keep forcing the muscle to adapt to the new strains being put on it.

A pyramid lifting routine, where you increase the weight and decrease the reps, each successive rep, is good for rapid muscle growth, so I have been told.

Drink/eat protein within forty minutes of doing your work out. This is when the protein gets put to rapid use and you'll get maximum gains. I used to do this after long distance running to since it aids the repair process. It works.

The vennier arms means the weights you are lifting are too light. Your toning you arms not building muscle! Start doing sets in the order of 15, 12, 10, 8, 6 and increase the weight each set.

Shoulders.....

https://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/DBShoulderPress.html
https://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidLateral/DBLateralRaise.html

Back
https://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/DBBentOverRow.html

Chest
https://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/dumbellexercises.html

The list is endless. You can literally pick a few of each and work on them. Compound exercises are better as it teaches muscles to work together, which is more functional.

I'm led to believe that dumbbell exercises are better than barbell as more often than not you can over compensate with your stronger side whilst lifting a bar. When using dumbbells both arms have to act independently this getting stronger arms.

If you want to bulk up fast then you need heavier weights, as just doing light weights and lots of protein will probably see you gut rise before your shoulders! Protein isn't fattening but most people don't just eat a can of tuna on its own.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 19:45 - 26 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

what? BWFC trying to gain bulk? ,

Not possible for some BG info BWFC looks like a famine victim at the best of times, tall and very thin....

however ...

chin ups loads of the damned things,

and upsidedown situps (thats where you hang from the ceiling),

I do have this spring loaded muscle thing that Kev used to use , and he used to be a pretty beefy bloke (but its more a tendon thing)
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st3v3
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PostPosted: 19:53 - 26 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy... Laughing

Craigee bee, Don't matter, forget it. Thumbs Up
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_Will_
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PostPosted: 21:40 - 26 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

craigie b wrote:

Protein isn't fattening but most people don't just eat a can of tuna on its own.


Laughing I do....but then i'm odd Shifty
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bazza
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PostPosted: 22:22 - 27 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a confirmed lardass and spectacularly unfit specimen, I'd recommend having a look round this guy's site. Plenty of advice, videos and interesting things to break up the exercise routine boredom - I mean, a sledgehammer? Sandbags?

Thumbs Up Mr. Green Thumbs Up
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TomR6
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PostPosted: 22:50 - 27 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

You said you've got dumbells, I'd advise getting a 'powerbar' it lets you do pull ups in your doorway and wide grip pressups.

Other than that, do dips in the corner of your kitchen work surfaces, and vary your pressup incline, put your feet on something higher.

Don't be afraid of taking protein shakes, they help. They arn't going to make you huge.

With the dumbells, I'd do some dumbell presses and military presses. Freeweights are very good. You good do squats aswell with the dumbells in each hand, remember to push through your heels though, not your toes.
I'd try and get a barbell and a bench.

More importantly, a good figure is made in the kitchen. Clean your diet etc.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 23:02 - 27 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

you can borrow me spring loaded bar if you want, as said its not mine it was left to me ,
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Johnny GSX-R
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PostPosted: 01:02 - 28 Nov 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best thing to do is visit a website dedicated to the subject Mark.

I spent months on weights and taking supliments until i met a chap called 'Dorian Yates'.. He gave me advice i'll never forget.
"Buy my book and take 3 gym sessions off to read it and THEN go back and do as i advised".
All these dumb arse excersises were wasting energy for nothing in return. I started to take notice of the book and very quickly gained a massive ammount of muscle mass, so much in fact that i was drug tested at work only 6 months after.
I trained for 3 hrs a night over 6 nights a week for 2 years. I got so broad that people were commenting on my size, especially across the shoulders.

Mark, stay away from heavy weight and concentrate solely on comfortable to lift stuff. I nearly popped a bollock each time i went, nearly followed through on several occasions Rolling Eyes
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