lifesavers... your view?

[lydanial]

i was talking in the high street the other day to a group of motoring safety guys, basically they do advanced riding/driving courses so was asking about them (a bit of a brush up maybe as past test 15 years ago.).

anyway, i was chatting to this chap and he asked me about my lifesavers, i had a think and then said, 'yeah i use them from time to time, but not as often as i was told to.'

at this point he informed me that 90% of the lifesavers taught to you are a waste of time and that as a competant rider you should ALWAYS know what is behind you, thus removing the chance of the 'bike creeping up your inside scenario'.

anyway i must admit that a lot of what he was saying seemed true, i mean you do a lifesaver, then another and another to turn right (actually not sure how many it is now).. surely the first one either tells you if there is a need to check again or not.

also i was told on my lessons (long time ago now) that its to check your blind spot, but i find by just leaning forward slightly more than normal i can see everything in my mirrors and so i dont have to twist my head halfway round which can cause instability to the bike (well it doesnt bother me that way now but my wife had a lot of stability issues with life savers)

[G]

Two sides I see to this:
One is that if you have kept up good general observations, yes, you shouldn't need to do lifesaves.

The second is that the above is a bit arrogant and presumes you are the perfect rider .

Sure you don't need to do them as many times as some people teach, but they are definitely still useful.

[Ariel Badger]

I hate wankers like that, of course 99% of lifesavers are a waste and of course the perfect ridder knows the distance of every other road user.
We are not all as perfect as Mr Advanced Safety Expert. Doing life savers every time you were taught imbeds the habit into you, you no longer need to think about it and remember, they never tell you the 1% that is needed.
Next time you meet this tosser tell him that you are human and not a super-being like him. They come up with this crap to belittle others. Be above that.
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[lydanial]

[G]

'The above' was referring to my first point .

[Lone-Wolf]

Wotcha.

The lifesaver is now a habit with me - a habit that carries on even when I'm driving the work's van.

Come to think of it, I even give a quick glance over my shoulder when I'm about to change direction whilst walking
Still, I must be doing something right . . . . . I'm still alive and kicking
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Cheers.
^..^
L.W. - www.moonshiners.org.uk

[Ariel Badger]

I do them in supermarkets.
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Bikers make great organ donors, get 115 on your licence today.

[stinkwheel]

Mind you. You do develop an awareness after time about when you're not entirely sure what's behind you and do them more rigorously.

So no I don't do them all the time but I make damned sure I always do at least one just before turning right or pulling out into the next lane on a multi-lane road.

Riding a bike with no mirrors on does wonders for your rearward observation skills.
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[Lone-Wolf]

[MoshizZ]

I do them everywhere, even down town lol...

I also go to check my mirrors when they're not there, it's kinda funny when my mate ask's what im laughing at.

I do them on my bike 75% of the time...When pulling out or something.

I just use mirrors when im turning left or right
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[T.C]

If he is a true advanced rider, then the guy missed out one important word and that is the word "Consider"

It is impractical to do a lifesaver in every situation, there are occasions where watching what is developing ahead is more important than worrying about what is behind, and to be fair, most modern bikes have half decent mirrors anyway.

The only time a lifesaver is required is if there is some doubt as to whether you are 100% sure of what is happening behind, or if you have a blind spot where you need to ensure that you are aware of what is happening, but at the end of the day it comes back to considering your options and then applying the lifesaver as appropriate.

As an advanced examiner I do not demand lifesavers, but I do ask candidates to consider their use, and the consider process comes in as part of the information phase of the system.

For someone to say that lifesavers must be done 100% of the time is way off the mark and an inaccurate statement.
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[JonB]

I do lifesavers when I walk.

Major habit of mine.
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[Kickstart]

Hi

I do them almost all the time (yes, including in supermarkets or walking round town).

While it is true that if you know where everything is around you then a life saver is not required (and exactly the same can be argued for using indicators), I would counter that the life saver is a check to make sure you haven't missed anything.

People who rely on mirrors are the worrying ones.

All the best

Keith
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[snapperslappe...]

i know i don't meet the textbook standard for doing lifesavers, but i always always have a quick look before i start filtering, even if i think i know exactly what's going on behind me. The amount of times random bikes / peds have pulled out infront of me to start filtering is starting to get silly, but its mostly the mirror-less tracksuit ped thats the main culprit. I tend to try and make mirror eye contact with anyone waiting in traffic..........

The bandit's mirrors do leave allot to the imagination though!!!

[JonB]

[G]

I approach supermarkets as I would high-speed filtering; be quicker than everyone, so that life savers both distract from the task in hand and are redundant!
Freely push in front of people on the knowledge you are quicker.
When the traffic frees up, you have some time to play at 'stunts'.

[craigs23]

Of course, why wouldn't I?

[ms51ves3]

I only ever lifesaver to the right, usually when I'm riding down the road. This is because I have no mirrors. If I'm turning left though I don't do a lifesaver for cyclists because if there was one near by wouldn't I have over taken it.

[Dragonfly]

[TUG]

dont really do them often but i try to implement them into my riding as much as possible, but i often know about whats going on and leave a massive gap between me and any other road user, but thats not to say there could be a biker catching up to me in a rush or so. its best to do them but sometimes the road conditions and the moment dont allow.
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[TripleR]

Lifesavers should be used when appropriate and considered (and discounted as unnecessary) at other times. It's the same with indicators, use them when it's appropriate and, as they are there to indicate your intentions to other road users (includes pedestrians), when there is no-one there why do it? 11 o'clock at night, nobody around, you know you're turning left into your street why indicate to tell nobody you're going to do it? Life savers should be thought of in the same manner, use your mirrors more often (taught to scan at least every 8 seconds) and they become less imperative.

The entire process of training to be an advanced rider is to get you to think about EVERYTHING you do and weigh up whether it's necessary, safe and whether there's a good reason for doing it. Too many people drive and ride (unfortunately) completely automatically and don't spend any time actually thinking about it. SMIDSY, because a driver looks around at a junction 'automatically' doesn't mean he has actually seen anything, the automatic process dulls the mind.

[nynfortoo]

If there's too much going on ahead, chances are I won't have done enough mirror-checks to be 100% sure of what's behind me.

A couple of weeks ago, I was in standstill traffic on my way to work. I was indicating right to turn into the carpark 20 metres ahead, but was hesitant to overtake the cars infront as I just couldn't see far ahead enough to check it was clear. So I waited until the traffic was moving before I made my turn.

As the traffic started moving off, and just before I reached my right turn, I checked my mirror. Nothing to worry about.

So I did a lifesaver to make sure. Lo and behold, there was a woman in a 4x4 trying to overtake me, indicating right to turn into the same carpark as I.

If I'd just pulled out, I'd have been creamed.

[Kickstart]

[TUG]

[DEN MONKEY]

sweet fuckin a I do and I mean all the time.
In the car and especially on the bike.
I guess I focused on them when I started riding and they are now habbit and one I'm happy to keep up.

I figure a slight turn of my head is worth the effort if it saves my ass.

I'm also very particular about knowing whats going on around me at all times but I'm not going to not do it just because I think I know what is behind me.

Not quite up to supermarket perfection yet but I'm not far from it
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meh