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Anyone an organ donor? If not you may be soon.

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owdamer
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PostPosted: 09:39 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Anyone an organ donor? If not you may be soon. Reply with quote

Not content with taxing every last penny from you Mr Brown now wants your body parts.......
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7183559.stm
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 09:47 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

"This 12k-a-year prol is borderline, let's switch him off and grab everything..."

"This rich/powerful/famous person is borderline, let's do everything we can to save him..."
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owdamer
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PostPosted: 09:57 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hetzer wrote:
"This 12k-a-year prol is borderline, let's switch him off and grab everything..."

"This rich/powerful/famous person is borderline, let's do everything we can to save him..."


Meanwhile at the reception desk at A+E

Patient "Hi, i've been badly injured in an accident and I need treatment"

Receptionist "Ok, I need a little information first, Do you have your bank details?"
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Paivi
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PostPosted: 10:04 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meanwhile at the bedside of a seriously ill patient.

Patient:, "So, I've only got weeks to live?"

Specialist:, "Yes. We could save your life if we had a donor organ, but unfortunately not enough are being donated, as people haven't signed up for it, and their families refuse for sentimental reasons. Hope you've got a funeral plan..."

Details on how to become a donor are here.
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owdamer
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PostPosted: 10:18 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paivi wrote:
Meanwhile at the bedside of a seriously ill patient.

Patient:, "So, I've only got weeks to live?"

Specialist:, "Yes. We could save your life if we had a donor organ, but unfortunately not enough are being donated, as people haven't signed up for it, and their families refuse for sentimental reasons. Hope you've got a funeral plan..."

Details on how to become a donor are here.


I understand what you mean. I was told I probably need a cornea transplant last year, but that there could be a very long wait as people dont give then up. But, people have rights. even after death. If we are just going to start taking body parts off people after they die then why stop there? Why dont we take all their assets and pass them to the less well off? After all its a proven fact that the poor generally suffer from poorer health than the rich?
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syl
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PostPosted: 10:45 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Owdamer wrote:
But, people have rights. even after death. If we are just going to start taking body parts off people after they die then why stop there? Why dont we take all their assets and pass them to the less well off? After all its a proven fact that the poor generally suffer from poorer health than the rich?


We do, well, 40% of them. It's called inheritence tax (and it affects the rich far more than the poor - whom it doesn't affect at all).
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owdamer
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PostPosted: 10:57 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmahon wrote:

We do, well, 40% of them. It's called inheritence tax (and it affects the rich far more than the poor - whom it doesn't affect at all).


I'm aware of that. but what I was suggesting is that they could just decide to take the lot when you die. Why let it go to the next of kin who probably have their own homes and incomes?
I'm not saying that I support this idea, I'm merely suggesting that if they are going to start taking body parts they could just as easily change the law so that upon death your assets become the states.
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JonB
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PostPosted: 11:16 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

And why the fuck not? Your body is useless as a cold rotting mess in a coffin, why not make someone's day.

Some people are bloody stupid and short-sighted when it comes to death, there is 1% chance there is some sort of afterlife, in fact the odds are probably even less, why are people still clinging onto hope?

They can have any part of my body they like and I have informed all love ones this is what I want, so if they refuse and there is an afterlife, i'll haunt them for the rest of my life.
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owdamer
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PostPosted: 11:59 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon B wrote:
And why the fuck not? Your body is useless as a cold rotting mess in a coffin, why not make someone's day.


Why bother with the whole funeral thing? They could just cart you off to the bodyshop the moment you stop breathing and just gut you for spares.

How would you feel if you had a big accident, and rather than waste time and effort reviving you, they simply just let you die because someone needed something out of you?
What happens if you go in after a hospital has been slated for not reaching its organ donor targets? Would you get the same care?
I've been in the hands of the NHS for treatment on my eye for 9 months now and to be honest they've been crap. The thought of going in there in a life of death situation scares the pants off me, especially if its easier and more convenient for them if you die.
I've no problems being a donor, but thats MY CHOICE.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 12:15 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Owdamer wrote:
Why bother with the whole funeral thing? They could just cart you off to the bodyshop the moment you stop breathing and just gut you for spares.


Erm that is actually in my letter of wishes , that they can take everything they want , and the rest be cremated and scattered into the sea.

Owdamer wrote:

How would you feel if you had a big accident, and rather than waste time and effort reviving you, they simply just let you die because someone needed something out of you?



The way to get around this is to NOT be on the donor lists BUT to have it in your letter of wishes once you've been declared dead, and have a reading right there and then you can still harvest organs (a few of them) after you die.
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h00dwink
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PostPosted: 12:37 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a Donor. Have been registered for about 5 or 6 years now. The bits aren't going to be doing anything for me when i'm gone. I feel strongly that i'd like to do something honorable like that after death.

Also, Hospitals aren't entirely like they seem to have been described here. Making out as if there's not Hypocratic oath is particularly weird. That it'd be easier for "them" to let you die so "they" can harvest your body to reach thier doned parts target...
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SoND
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PostPosted: 13:20 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon B wrote:
And why the fuck not? Your body is useless as a cold rotting mess in a coffin, why not make someone's day.


But to take someones right away to the choice of what happens is seriously fucked.
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JonB
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PostPosted: 13:24 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A system of "presumed consent" in which everyone is a potential donor unless they opt out is also being considered.

You still have a bloody choice, just you opt-out rather than opt in. Jesus, some people look into things too deeply, for once take some things at face value.
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cestrian
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PostPosted: 13:35 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our ten year old nearly died when she was just 15 months old and on life support. My wife was approached by hospital staff and was asked "would you consider organ donation? She has beautiful eyes and the mortician would make a lovely job, you'ld never know". My wife replied, "she not dead, go away". Those words still haunt my wife to this day.
The exposure of Alder Heys organ scandal a few years later proves the NHS's (or governments) willingness to completely disregard the thoughts, wishes and feelings of patients and their families. To them you are just a piece of meat with a number.

I sincerely believe that hospital staff will make less effort to keep people alive in order to harvest body parts for transplants. I wouldn't be surprised if the government quietly introduced financial incentives or targets in order to facilitate more transplants. Perhaps a bit like the social services being paid to remove children from their homes.

Regards
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SoND
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PostPosted: 13:50 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon B wrote:
You still have a bloody choice, just you opt-out rather than opt in. Jesus, some people look into things too deeply, for once take some things at face value.


I'd rather have the choice to opt in rather than be forced into it unless I try and tell them otherwise.
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craigie b
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PostPosted: 14:07 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, Jon B, so much life experience still to obtain Laughing
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JonB
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PostPosted: 14:14 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

craigie b wrote:
Ah, Jon B, so much life experience still to obtain Laughing

I'll bite.

If you understood my post fully, I was iterating that you still have the choice, people are making out you have no choice in the matter whatsoever when you blatantly do, whether it's morally right or wrong is another matter, but you still have choice.

It is jumping to conclusions about certain government policies, that makes stupid politcal groups have an argument for looking good.

Has nothing to do with life experience, just being able to read. As I am OK to have my organs donated, it affects in me in no way.

Problem is you'll all have your arms in the air with outrage until the time you require a transplant, which when you ride a motorcycle you have a good chance to need a donation of some sort of medical supplies, be it organs or blood.

People say they hate religion and believe it is the cause of all evil, yet still refute the idea of having their organs donated after their death, telling me that they have sub-consciously been doctored into some sort of belief that something will happen after they die, which is about as stupid as believing there is a bearded man in the sky looking down on us.
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cestrian
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PostPosted: 14:19 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see it now....

A man is brought into A&E after an RTA. Amongst other things he has suffered a corneal injury in a car accident, some debris hit one of his eyes.
Minutes later another crash victim takes his last breath upon entering A&E. Hospital staff cannot find his opt-out card, in desperation and fuelled by financial incentive, they decide to take a cornea from him to help the other guy.
Later in the day, a woman (a nurse actually) arrives at the hospital holding the dead guys opt-out card. The hospital refuses to let her see her grandfathers dead body for fear of court action.

Of course this situation may never occur as the hospital will be able to scan the dead body for the biometric info chip which was implanted by force some years earlier.

On the other hand, this story will probably take the heat off Peter Hain just long enough for the media to forget about his crimes. Very Happy
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JonB
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PostPosted: 14:20 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

cestrian wrote:
I can see it now....

A man is brought into A&E after an RTA. Amongst other things he has suffered a corneal injury in a car accident, some debris hit one of his eyes.
Minutes later another crash victim takes his last breath upon entering A&E. Hospital staff cannot find his opt-out card, in desperation and fuelled by financial incentive, they decide to take a cornea from him to help the other guy.
Later in the day, a woman (a nurse actually) arrives at the hospital holding the dead guys opt-out card. The hospital refuses to let her see her grandfathers dead body for fear of court action

An opt-out card? What planet are you on, Labour will use a rubbish NHS computer system to hold your data. Wink
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cestrian
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PostPosted: 14:22 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

craigie b wrote:
Ah, Jon B, so much life experience still to obtain Laughing


Craigie, give Jon a break eh. He's still fresh out of school and still being taught by the PC establishment.

Regards
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JonB
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PostPosted: 14:24 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

cestrian wrote:

Craigie, give Jon a break eh. He's still fresh out of school and still being taught by the PC establishment.

Regards

Rather that than a deluded, racist establishment. Wink
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TheShaggyDA
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PostPosted: 14:24 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon B wrote:
An opt-out card? What planet are you on, Labour will use a rubbish NHS computer system to hold your data. Wink


It'll be just a tick box on your ID card Smile
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owdamer
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PostPosted: 14:29 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon B wrote:


Problem is you'll all have your arms in the air with outrage until the time you require a transplant, which when you ride a motorcycle you have a good chance to need a donation of some sort of medical supplies, be it organs or blood.



I was told I would need a cornea transplant, but as people dont like to donate their eyes it could take a long time before a suitable donor turned up, yet I still feel that you should have a choice.
Yes, its that word again. Choice. Its all very well saying that you do have a choice, but the choice should be to agree to be a donor, not to have to go opting out.
Suppose you go opt out. Your name goes on a database then one day you arrive in hospital. Oh, well dont treat him, he opted out.
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JonB
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PostPosted: 14:32 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

You seem to have a complete lack of trust in human beings which is sad, but I don't think your typical doctor is going to be Harold Shipman and let you die for someone else, it is counter productive, cause you still lose one life.

I put my faith in doctors that they will do their upmost to save a casualty, to think otherwise is bordering on the slightly mad.
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cestrian
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PostPosted: 14:33 - 13 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Rather that than a deluded, racist establishment" - Jon B

The education system responsible for my education was slightly less deluded and perhaps slightly less racist.
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