For the new 125er's

[oliver]

Could we get an experienced trustworthy person to write a post in the frequently asked questions forum on the:
NSR125
RG125
TZR125
RS125
MITO125

This would really help those 125er's that are new to biking.

[PsychoHippy]

Er, a post to say what?
That they are bikes?
That they are 125s?
Or maybe some long technical description of how to strip, overhaul and re-assemble the engine?
Unfortunately, I don't think there is anyone on this forum with enough experience of all of those bikes to do it (OK, maybe Keith).
If you can be a bit more specific about what you are after, then I'm sure between us we will be able to supply a reasonable amount of info (apart from me, because I've never ridden any of them).
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I spend all my money on bikes and beer, the rest I simply waste!

[Mrs_Hippy]

So that was you getting out of my side of the bed this morning....

I would have thought riding the V raptor to work would have put the smile back on your face

[oliver]

I meant for people with no idea about biking those seem to be the bikes that they first look at. I know they were the ones i looked at first. And, yes, I admit it i was hypnotised with the aprilia and the cagiva but then after ALOT of searching around and phoning up motor dealers I found the one that was good for me.

I'm not going to tell you which one.(not the cagiva or the aprilia)

I just thought it would be nice for people new to biking who want a sports bike could have a paragraph on less statitics but more what the bikes are like to ride. Preferably by someone who has riden more than two of them.

I know its very opinion based but that would really help those new 125er.

[Ste]

Surely after you doing all your research and phoning around and finding out about them you are in quite a good position to write such an article?

[G]

From my experience (of a few of them) they're all pretty similar to ride.

While the engine's have slight differences, there's nothing drastic, especially if it's for the first time rider.

Again, with the handling, the first time rider is unlikely to notice significant differences.
The NSR (and maybe rg) may be a bit easier to ride on the road, but not too significantly I would have thought.

[stevo as b4]

Id be very surprised if anyone has bothered to ride most/all of those bikes, as they are all generally very similar. the obvious differences being in style/price/and availability.
I have only ridden the TZR125L, but its fair to say the following:
The 2 italian bikes are the best looking, most powerful, and have the fastest top speeds, but only slightly. They also are possibly the most popular two, 125 sports bikes, and now are the only new 2stroke sportsbike 125's you can buy. If im right the NSR isnt being made now the CBR125 replacement has been launched?
The Aprilia is i would say more popular than the Cagiva though, as there are more dealers around, and Cagiva has only recently re started its production lines, so they have been very hard to get hold of for at least 12moths or more. I think both italian bikes are more difficult, or time consuming to get spares for, and its likely that parts are more expensive than the Jap bikes also. Some people say these two models can/have been unreliable, but i dont think that that applies to one more than the other. Not considering price, or running costs/parts availability, i think most people would go for the Aprilia or Cagiva in terms of style and performance, tho i would say they are too cramped for people of 6' or over.
The NSR is the most popular Jap sports 125, simply as since 96, its had no competition, and its considered to be a better combination of speed/reliability, with plenty of Dealers being a Honda, and decent parts supply etc. The TZR and RG are now going to be much older and most likely High mileage/worn out/crash damaged/unreliable/ generally tatty, these days unless you find a rare low mileage mint bike, (not likely)!
The TZR125L was made from 87-93 and since 91 they also had a rear disc brake, early ones didnt always have a full fairing either. The Newer TZR125R was made from 93-96 i think, and i think it looks nicer than the NSR125R, but not many were sold in the uk, although some have been imported from italy. It and the later suzuki RG125F were the only Jap 125's with usd forks. The old RG125Gamma, was made from 85-92, and its competitors at the time were bikes like the NS125R, and AR125. the newer RG125F was again quite a nice looking Jap 125, and that was made from 92-96. Its supposed to be the fastest of all Jap 125's and it has a claimed 33bhp@11500rpm. I think the newer TZR's wernt quite as quick, but still faster than most others NSR's etc. The old TZR125 that i had a go on was a mates at school, it looked really good back in early 90's, and it did about 90mph. Was a bitch to ride unless you had a power valve kit fitted tho.

[one1895]

"Please sir, may I have some more..?"


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[Kickstart]

Hi

Well, here goes. I haven't ridden them all, but I will try.

NSR125
Alloy frame. Had a major redesign in around 1994. Crankcase reed valve engine with a power valve. Restricted by a washer in the exhaust and a plate in the inlet. Real top speed when restricted around the mid 90's. All UK ones were restricted. They were designed and built in Italy, but late ones were built in Spain.

RG125
Early ones used a steel frame using square section tubes. Whole bike weighed next to nothing. Managed about 80 when restricted to 12hp. Very narrow. Very spindly. Quite crude compared to more modern bike. Restricted in the exhaust and by leaving off the power valve, but the power valve did not have much effect on top end power
Later model launched aimed at the Aprilia AF1 Futura and the like. Still a steel frame I think. Restricted electronically. Easy derestricted by cutting a wire. Top speed of around the mid 90's

TZR125
Covers 3 totally different bikes. Early ones used a steel frame. Quite quick and reliable. Full power they would do a true low to mid 90's. Restricted by leaving off the power valve servo motor and clamping the valve in the low rev position. Performance could be increased by tuning by quite a lot, but then reliability went out of the window. Slightly later on the front wheel went from 16" to 17", at the same time as gaining a disk rear brake.
Shortly after thie TZR125 came out there was a model designed and built in Italy (by the Italian Yamaha importer Belgarda). These used a very similar engine (but built by Minarelli in Italy), with Paoli USD forks, Bremdo brakes and an alloy frame. These are meant to be fairly quick but vibrate a fair amount. They were built in several different states of tune.
Finally there was another version. Think these were built in Japan. They tried to look like the Italian version but had skinnier forks. Not really any knowledge about these at all. They did not seem to sell well.

RS125
Came out in Italy in 1992 and came to the UK at the end of summer 1993. Initially had a 34mm carb, produced 28.5hp at the rear wheel according to the road tests. Top speed just under 100mph. Over the years they evolved. Headlight changed. Clocks changed. Bodywork changed along with the wheels. Engine changed (different ignition system, different gear change, in fact quite a bit different), carbs got smaller.

MITO125
Started out in 1991 (I think). Initially came out as an unfaired bike with the faired version coming along about 6 months later (delays in setting up a factory in China making the bodywork apparently). Alloy frame and swinging arm. 7 speed gearbox. Looked like the (I think) 1990 Cagiva 500 GP bike. Performance wise it is about the same as the RS125, but came with rather better tyres. Revised in about 1995 with styling to look like the Ducati 916 (the guy who designed the 916 also designed the Mito, and still works for Cagiva). These version have a lower seat height. Eventually Cagiva went back to a 6 speed gearbox.

There are also a few other bikes to think about
Aprilia AF1
Steel frame. First chain driven bike on sale in the UK with a single sided swinging arm. Top speed about 94mph. Restricted by leaving off the power valve. Quite a tall 125. Good for long journies. Massive petrol tank. Fuel guage. 16" wheels front and back

Aprilia AF1 Sintesi
Top speed about 98. Alloy frame with steel single sided swinging arm. Fuel gauge on the early ones. Later ones got revised clocks with a fuel warning light, flush fitting fuel filler cap and smaller headlights. Same engine basically as the Futura and the early RS, but fitted with a 28mm carb. Comfy bikes to ride and for the road probably better than the Futura and RS.

Aprilia AF1 Futura
Single sided swinging arm. Same engine as the early RS125. Same top speed, but possibly marginally down on power as top end acceleration is slightly off.

Aprilia Europa
Unfaired version of the AF1 Futura. Same frame, suspension, fuel tank, engine, although with a more comfortable dual seat.

Honda NS125
Hondas first Italian built 125. Box section steel frame. Around 90mph top speed in full power form. Restricted by leaving off the power valve actuation and restricting the exhaust. Nice enough bikes, but not many left in good condition.

Gilera MXR125
Not imported. Box section steel frame. Mid 90's top speed. Quite small bikes. Had space to store a crash helmet under the "petrol tank".

Gilera SP01/SP02/Crono/GFR125
Series of Gilera sports 125s. Quite quick and feel very quick. Realistically about the same top speed as an RS125 or Mito. Steel frame. Only the GFR was imported, and only in very limited numbers. Not sure how they restricted them.

Gilera CX125
Gileras attempt to build a non race replica 125. Used a single sided front suspension system. Worked OK. Pig to work on. Quite quick (barely any slower than the RS125). Rare as hens teeth (rumours are they built about 800~900). Not imported so not restricted

Benelli Jarno 125
I want one. First 125 with an alloy frame. Also had twin disks at the front. Not imported and never seen one for sale.

All the best

Keith
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[oliver]

thanx keith and stevo.

[BLacKPooLLaD]

Bloody hell Keith alot of writing there, u could say u know ur stuff . I have an RS125 pretty good bike looks good, build is pretty good, i have had a few problems with it, from speedo cable, accelerator cable going and now my rear shock has gone on a 13month old bike. I think it looks the best as it has a nice frame witch is polished unlike the other 125s.

Luke
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[stevo as b4]

Hi keith,
I remember those old RG125's and yeah they were tiny for a 125cc, smaller than the older TZR's and they look small today! There was kid with one near me with a Pepsi paintjob, and Micron pipe. It was noisy and seemed fast at the time, (early 90's) I think they were only about 17-18bhp full power though, but must of weighed about 90kg max. I never realised that there was 3 types of TZR, but i do remember seeing one of the late Jap versions, and i think it looks better than a NSR125R. I also always wondered why honda went back to a nasty steel frame for the later NSR's as the gold coloured All cast alloy framed ones looked far nicer i thought! My mates TZR was pretty reliable, considering it had a pegged open powervalve, and the way he thrashed it everywhere. I remember him and another mate doing wheelies at safeway carpark one day, and the other kid had a Honda H100, which was far easier to wheelie, than an all or nothing TZR.

[Kickstart]

Hi

Owned an RS125 from new in 1993, one of the first batch in the country. Not had too many problems with it for a bike that gets thrashed!

The old RG was tiny. So narrow it was like riding a bike with your legs crossed. Only oddity was the size of the screen and top of the fairing. Brakes were very wooden feeling.

We had an early TZR years ago. With the power valve twisted it would only manage about 85mph. I have heard that some were also restricted in the exhaust. They were very reliable as standard, or just derestricted although the build quality was not great. You could tune them to do over 100 true, but then you really did have a bit of a grenade as an engine.

Also had an H100, as it was my first bike (Northern Ireland insurance on a 125 was a bit steep). They were very low geared and would wheely easily. It wheelied really easily when the timing was a touch out, but then only ran for a while before getting too hot and loosing power.

Think given a choice I would have the Gilera engine in an RS125 chassis, with Cagiva suspension and Honda spares support.

All the best

Keith
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[bikedudextrm]

my mates got an 93' rg125 wolf, thats a nice bike, its got a powervalve and as its import its full power and does close to 100mph. A popular 125 with a few of my mates is the tzr125, as you can pick them up for peanuts now, one of my mates has got a g-reg tzr with front disc and rear drum, another mate has got one virtually identical but an H-reg but its got a rear disc brake and a power valve which the other has'nt got so he thinks his is an import. The G-reg one can do about 75-80mph but the H-reg with the power valve can do about 95mph, the only thing i dont like about them is that they look really small and skinny and the rear tyre is tiny. Every one thinks mito parts are hard to get, when i had myne when ever i needed parts i poped into mito monda and he had all the parts i required there in stock, parts i needed were thinks like clutch cable, speedo cable, full engine gasket set, piston rings, and a few other minor parts. My mate with his rs125 had to wait 2 weeks for just a speedo cable.

[NSR125-Kid-UK]

[Kickstart]

Hi

All the late RG125s had a power valve, even when restricted. You made them full power by cutting a wire to the cdi unit (black and white one I think) which meant it operated the power valve correctly.

The power valve kit was available from Yamaha for the TZR for full licence holders. They were the holey grail at the time. The speedos were renowned for over reading (same clocks on the old RD125, and a true 97mph was over an indicated 110mph).

I have never really had a problem with RS parts. If I get desperate then Speedaway have most bits in stock. Engine parts I can get virtually next day delivery from Peter Knight.

Still need some bits for the Cagiva Freccias though (Mito Mondo says he can get them, just really need to make a list).

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Gti]

[Kickstart]

Hi

Thanks. Another one to add the the listt. 3X seem fairly useless for Freccia parts (and it doesn't help that the only parts fiche they seem to have is for the very late el cheapo version of the Freccia).

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[MarJay]

Keith,
I saw one of those Gilera CX125's for sale in a dealer a few weeks ago, and it was a weird looking thing, looked a bit like a sinclair C5 with better taste.

Its like it was futuristic back in the 80s!
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Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Kickstart]

Hi

The CX was launched at the end of 1990, for sale from 1991. We have a few of them. First time we rode one on the road a guy on a GT550 almost rode into the back of a car trying to look at it.

All the best

Keith
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[stevo as b4]

Only Gilera i ever saw was a GFR125, which i thought looked pretty trick for a 125. It was a multicolour paintjob with white/purple/green and black&white chequered flag style graphics on the lower fairing.

[Kickstart]

Hi

GFR and the CX are quite similar underneath. Very similar engine, frame and rear suspension.

The PB road test of the RS125 and the GFR125 said that the GFR felt faster but the RS actually was faster. The GFR frame is painted steel.

All the best

Keith
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[nathangarrett]

Hi i was wondering if anyone can help me i have bought a Yamaha 1995 TZR125R italian import for a very cheap price as the engine is seized. I am having real trouble finding the piston ad torque settings as a haynes manual is non existant. Can anyone help me out or does anyone know where i can get a manual.

thanx

[Kickstart]

Hi

I hear that the engine is basically the same as an early 1990's DT125, and that the pistons are interchangeable.

All the best

Keith
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[GriceyAF1]

hi there i own an aprilia AF1 futura 1991 with a polished frame and soon to have a polished swinging arm forks yokes candy effect blue wheels and complete race spray job with handbuilt nikkon exhaust but more of that later before the af i owned and suzuki rg125 wolf tuned to the sound of (f*kin loud) 56bhp wich im quite proud off but it was awful like all 125cc bikes tuned it was extremely unrilable but it was awful to ride didnt hadle didnt brake nothing but obviusly it went well i have also ridden my mates nsr on a g plate and that handels like a whale but will out accelerate my bike due to the power valve on the nsr i have ridden with the likes of rs 125cc and dont get me wrong there rapid but they cant seem to hold the corner speed the person who owned my bike be 4 me fitted an over sized 130 70 17 tyre on my bike wich doesnt work well it needs the 120 80 (or 60cant remember wich) 17 tyre it should be fitted with but i cant afford it just yet
my bikes a 1991 model been badly treated but has a recent engine rebuild that iv put 1000 km on (done by dealer) but the rear shock and front seal are both kaput wich i will replace before the above work is carried out if there is n e 1 in the hertfordshire area that fancy meeting for a ride one day id be well up 4 it !!
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