Lets do something about this October 2008 nonsense

[cypher]

We all know the following to be true:

Bikes are;

More Fuel Efficient
Cause less congestion
Extremely unlikely to kill a 3rd party else in the event of an accident
Less emissions

Now im sure you lot can think of a ton more. Now as im sure you all know, the DVLA are changing the UK Bike Test. Making it such a pain in the ass to move onto a larger machine that is capable of keeping with traffic (esp on NSL roads) easily.

The way I see it, this is going to discourage people from taking up biking, I mean lots of us dont plan on staying on a 125 forever. Accident figures set us bikers apart largely because there far fewer of us on the road than tin cans on wheels, so a bike accident stands out alot more.

What also should bother us, is the fact there is no changes to the car test. There are many more deaths caused by Cars and plenty of accidents too. Why shouldnt the Car test get equal treatment?

These are my thoughts. Correct me if im wrong, either way I feel we should make some noise about this issue. Stand up for your fellow biker and potential new bikers!

I think maybe the best strategy is a public demonstration. The e-petitions website seems rarely listened to but might be worth considering as a two pronged approach.
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NC30 Pilot | NO2ID Worcester Coordinator

[Fahd]

I highly doubt we can change anything now. My recommendation is to do what I am and pass your full bike test A.S.A.P/ before October 2008.

EDIT: Having just seen your sig. it seems you've passed, good on you for caring about your fellow man!
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I Ride: Honda CBR 400RR.
I Drive: Audi S3.

[deanoet]

To pass a bike test is a hell of a lot easier than to pass the car test.

You can never have been on a bike in your life, and be passed and ready to roll in 5 days with some companies

You can then realistically afford a bike that will do 0 - 60 faster than any car that is less than £100k to buy
Your bike + insurance could cost less than a grand

I started biking in July 07, I had passed my test by 30th October, I now ride a 600 Hornet which will do 0 - 60 in 4?? 5?? seconds if i opened it up.

The stats for bike accidents and car accidents dont lie. There are more cars that crash and cause death or serious injury. But percentage wise for how many bikes there are on the roads it is a lot higher


The real issue isnt the extra cost and difficulty of getting a full license it is whether their solution of the new tests will work or not.

We dont want to put people off biking by pricing them out of the market, but equally we dont want the training to be so little that they are a risk to themselves, or worse still, a risk to others


Both are geared at the moment to teaching you to pass a test. Not to be safe on the roads.

The car test doesnt teach a glance backwards into the blind spot when changing lanes. You learn that yourself by a car or a bike verbally abusing you cos you didnt see them
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CBT Passed 18th July 2007 : Previous Bikes> CG125 : Current Bike> Hornet 600 : PASSED DAS 30th Oct 2007
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[cypher]

Hetzer,

I thought bikers looked out for each other?

And have you ever heard of the expression Divide and Conquer? This is exactly what our government would want. People divided from each other while keeping us hopeless and annoyed to the point we just lie down and take it (while occasionally grumbling to one another about it).

In France, when the people dont like something they make an enormous row about it which has lead to their government being afraid of upsetting their people.

Tin Foil Hat jibes may even be true in some cases (New World Order and all that stuff) but the fact remains that sitting here and grumbling about it gets nothing done and grassroots activism is the most powerful way of getting how we feel in the government and or the public eye.
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NC30 Pilot | NO2ID Worcester Coordinator

[cypher]

deanoet,

[Kickstart]

[Kris]

[Reppyboyo]

Seems like a fuss over nothing tbh.

Had a look at a write up of the new test in this months Ride mag, doesn't look too bad.
Dont think its fair as its generally car driving standards are shit but at least its teaching the newbies abit more.

[cypher]

[Pie-Roe]

And so bikers 'kicking ass' about how the test which they have already passed is going to make such a difference.

Most of the people who were planning to take their test will be aware and will do it. I don't disagree with the new tests, Although I do think the standard should be higher. Something needs to give, although again the government hasn't asked the people about the solutions and therefore has rather rashly put together a proposal which yet again, doesnt serve the people.

New people will lump it, 'cause thats the way of the world.

Pyro
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Previous: GSF600, FZR600 x2, ZXR750, XT600 Tenere, CB125, CZ125, ETZ 250, ER5, CCM R30, DRZ400, RF600x4, RF900x2, GS500, VTR1000F, 640 SMC, CB250 NIGHTHAWK, GT550x3, GPX750 TE610, CB500, X11x2, SV650, ZING 125, TL1000R,CB250 Superdream, CBR1100XX

[deanoet]

You learn to drive over a few months.

You can learn to ride in a few days

Before i took my bike test i never once rode in rain on the 500cc bike

I was let loose on a nearly 100hp bike which weighed 200kg, which could propel me to speeds i couldnt achieve in a car i could afford after 6 months experiance total, 3 and a half days of them being on a 500, in dry perfect weather.



Just to clarify i agree with you, it isnt going to work. They are trying to bring biker deaths down, which is a worthy cause. But a harder test isnt going to do it.

AFAIK it is just a CBT added onto it so the controlled stop is done in a controlled area where they can dictate speed, as well as confirm your slow bike control.

I was told to not go faster than 25mph for the controlled stop.
Great for passing my test, real world safety application?



It all boils down to experiance at the end of the day, and you cant teach experiance, not in a week.
You are taught to pass a test, in a car you are unlikely to cause yourself or anyone else injury if you learn the hard way. On a bike you are sliding down the road, which is going to hurt.

In a car i have ended up facing the way i came from, too fast round a corner, bounced off 2 dirt mounds at the side of the road. came to rest in the middle of the road, facing the way i came from. I was 18, in the words of Mr Clarkson "Watch this"

What would the outcome have been if i had that moment on 2 wheels? Trees and hedges down the sides of the road.


I see what the government are trying to do. Age and experience is what is needed, there would be total uproar if the raised the bike minimum age to 21 / 25, they can try to tackle the experience side of things



Remember when cars first came out there was no test for them, buy one, off you go.
You could at one point ride a 50cc bike with a car license

Roads are dangerous places, if it brings down the fatalities on the roads then it can only be a good thing.
We all make mistakes at some point, i would prefer to make that mistake surrounded by experienced riders rather than a bunch of 17 year olds with 2 weeks riding experience.

Nothing against the younger people, but experience dictates you may not react quickly, or indeed may react too quickly and become part of the accident
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CBT Passed 18th July 2007 : Previous Bikes> CG125 : Current Bike> Hornet 600 : PASSED DAS 30th Oct 2007
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[rblanch]

[iooi]

[UnknownStuntm...]

I don't care how hard they make the test (s) really. I think a major change in people's driving habits (and hence the number of collisions) will only come from radical moves like making a driving test mandatory after a number of years. Let's say, 5.

Look how the CBT works - you can ride a 'ped for 2 years then you have to get the certificate again. If that can be managed, I'm pretty sure a full license can be managed also.

And I know I'll get a bashing for it, but I truly believe that if the 'British public at large' were to be tested regularly like this, less people would be killed or injured on the roads.

[Mudskipper]

I think you are all missing the important point about the new tests.

They will have to be done at these new 'supercentres' (most of which haven't even got planning permission yet) to incorporate the off-road parts of the test.

I recently saw a map of the distribution of these centres around the UK.

There are not enough. There will be waiting lists as long as your arm, people that fail the first time will be discouraged.

Some people will have to trek bloody miles to one, I think especially in Scotland.

Couldn't find the map I saw online, here is a list on the DSA site:

https://www.dsa.gov.uk/mptclist.asp?CAT=404

It's not good, it will cut the number of new bikers and hit training schools hard.

In my opinion, aspects such as motorway riding and carrying pillions (both of which you are not allowed to experience on L plates, yet can jump on your 'busa after passing DAS and do both) should be included in the test, not crazy cone manouevres requiring new sites.
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CBR125|||GSXR400|||CBR400|||CBR400|||CB250RS|||GSXR750|||CB250RS
"You're clumsy, you eat too much and you behave like a 12 year old boy. But you know what? Every once in a while, you find a thumb."

[MarJay]

[mrbluesbox]

I really dont think that having a harder test is going to make much difference to rider safety.

you learn to pass your test, then you learn you ride (or drive for you car kids) - i know of NO ONE that still rides (or driver for that matter) the same as they do when they pass their test.

how many car drivers do you know that drive with hands at 10 to 2 on the wheel and shuffle it round corners.
same goes for bikes, clutchless shifting, moving bodyweight around on the bike etc little things that make you a decent rider are learnt after your test - so making it more difficult to pass will not help.

the extended bike test will make you better at driving round cones and better at really low speeds. is it really low speed non fatal stuff they want to stop? will being able to do a slalom run round a couple of cones at 15 mph really help with heavy breaking on a wet motorway. in other words - will the extended test help you in any practical way. will it bollocks. the government have found a nice way to make you pay double for your test. it really hasnt got anything to do with rider safety.

im more than willing to bet the extended test idea was thought up by someone who hasnt even ridden a bike before.

to be honest it would be a far better option to make the car test far more difficult and incorperate some form of "biker observation" test to try and reduce the amounts of "sorry mate didnt see you".

its very annoying but theres not really much you can do about it any more than we can do something about speed cameras. its gonne be here to stay
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I seem to have misplaced my pants...................

[Walloper]

Bikes are:
Unreliable.
Dangerous to ride.
Risky to keep possession of.
Uncomfortable to use.
Anti-Social.
Noisy.
Are not as Fuel Efficient as cars Kg for Kg. (Well mine is not. 40mpg).
The people who ride/own/maintain them are weird as.

I am getting more and more sick of it as time goes on.
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W-ireless A-rtificial L-ifeform L-imited to O-bservation P-eacekeeping and E-fficient R-epair

[Kickstart]

[UnknownStuntm...]

Yeah, granted, motorways should definitely be a part of the test. But then, I don't know how tricky it is to understand 'keep left unless you're overtaking' anyhow!

But I still think I'm on to something having a test every 'x' years. You're right about it needing more examiners, but that's a good thing. More examiners= more qualified people on the road etc. (and the 'dad says it gives people jobs' bit too...) I reckon if people are dragged in and asked to deliver the goods for an hour every 5 years some people will really start to appraise their ability a bit more.

Be realistic, in the first few years after you passed, you drove differently to how you drive now. And perhaps if the test was changed to cater for other things such as more stringent eyesight / peripheral vision tests for those at higher risk of eye problems too it might help.

It's the doddery old grandma I'm thinking of specifically. But I HATE to generalise. So I would have thought the fair option would be to make everyone pass a test regularly to keep their 'right' to ride or drive.

[Kickstart]

[st3v3]

Why dont they simply up the minimum test age to like 20? only ride CBT til then...? Experience in abundance then.
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Roger wrote: Women don't get damp for clingy puppies. Get some better happy pills, hit the gym & buy a medallion the size of a dinner plate. Job done

[Mac_Black]

st3v3 you are evil.

[iooi]

[Kwaks]

TBH I have never agreed with CBT riders being able to ride around unsupervised after just a days training, cue flames from the teenagers. All car learners must be supervised, I don't see why it is different for bikes, cause lets face it we have all seen peds doing stupid and dangerous things due to lack of road sense.

I agree that these testing centres will cause problems due to availability and location, I don't see why the testers can't base themselves at schools who already have these facilities.
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Fallen Angel "Nae sniffing my seat now!!!!! "
www.cliqueycuntsmcc.co.uk
I AM NOT A FAST RIDER!!!!!!!!!