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Singapore Laws. Draconian or Just?

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craigie b
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PostPosted: 14:24 - 28 Jan 2008    Post subject: Singapore Laws. Draconian or Just? Reply with quote

After returning from Singapore I have been left pondering the regulation that the government imposes on the people. A few examples....

Quote:
Following are some of the laws being enforced in Singapore which visitors should be aware of.

Smoking
Smoking is not allowed in public service vehicles, museums, libraries, lifts, theaters, cinemas, air-conditioned restaurants, hair salons, supermarkets, department stores, and government offices. Offenders can be fined up to S$1,000. While it is an offense to smoke in air-conditioned eating places, smoking is allowed in air-conditioned pubs, discos, karaoke bars, and nightspots.

Spitting
Spitting in public places is an offense subject to a fine of S$1,000 for first-time offenders and S$2,000 for repeat offenders.

Toilets
In Singapore, it is an offense not to flush public toilets after use. Those convicted face a fine of up to S$150 for the first offense, S$500 for the second offense, and S$1,000 for subsequent offenses.

Drugs
Trafficking, manufacturing, importing or exporting more than 15 grams of heroin, 30g of morphine, 30g of cocaine, 500g of cannabis, 200g of cannabis resin and 1.2 kg of opium carries the death penalty if convicted. Possession of such quantities is deemed as prima facie evidence of trafficking. Persons convicted of unauthorized traffic in the following drugs in the respective quantities face imprisonment of 20-30 years, and 15 strokes of the cane.

* Opium – Not less than 800g and not more than 1,200g
* Heroin – Not less than 10g and not more than 15g
* Cannabis – Not less than 330g and not more than 500g
* Morphine & cocaine – Not less than 20g and not more than 30g
* Cannabis resin – Not less than 130g and not more than 200g

Unauthorized traffic in controlled drugs, other than those specified above, carries a minimum sentence of 2 years' imprisonment and 2 strokes of the cane, and a maximum sentence of 20 years' imprisonment and 15 strokes of the cane. For unauthorized consumption, there is a maximum of 10 years' imprisonment or fine of S$20,000 or both.

Gambling
Charity draws, Toto and Singapore Sweep lotteries, and on-course betting on horse races at the Singapore Turf Club are the only authorized forms of gambling in Singapore. All other gambling activities are illegal.

Jaywalking
Pedestrians crossing a road within 50 meters of a pedestrian crossing risk paying a S$50 fine.

Littering
Any person convicted of littering faces a fine of up to S$1,000 for the first offense. Repeat offenders may be fined S$2,000, and made to do community service (cleaning public places).


Whilst there it is hard not to notice the regulation in action. From the Gurhka's prowling through the airport to the customs checking for tax free cigarettes, the government intervention on everyday life is astounding.

However, the infrastructure and the city is nothing short of outstanding. Everything is done to the highest standard. From the airlines (which are the best in Asia IMO), to the taxis to the public transport, everything runs smoothly and brilliantly. The streets are unbelievably clean and I've never felt safer in any country. There are direct visible positives to this level of regulation.

The following article is by the ex PM who forged modern Singapore...

https://www.zimbio.com/Prime+Minister+Lee+Hsien+Loong/articles/2/Modern+Singapore+Creator+Alert+Perils

So I am left now thinking, is regulation, if done well, with the good of the nation as its real goal rather than the lining of a MP's pocket, is it a good thing?

Singapore shows that it works to the benefit of the nation and they have achieved a standard of excellence beyond all measure. I could not see it working in the UK but half of me thinks of the fucking wasters who could do with being dragged by the government instead of being pandered to.

What do you guys think?
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 14:28 - 28 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

its a totalitarian state which has traded most of its freedom,

I recall other laws include

no walking around in your home nude as its considered porn

no BJs lest you actually have a shag,

etc etc

but they do beat up their wrong doers and have horrible prison conditions.

Depends what you want really in that I'd rather have more freedom than 1000s of rules like that, nobody complains cus its always been like that,

its how in 1984 the proles don't complain except the old one he meets in a pub and winston buys a litre of beer for, its always been like that many have no comparative , bit like North Korea with TV jammers and countrywide poverty and controlled movement of people people know no different, obviously singaporeans can move about but similar principle.
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 14:34 - 28 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't comment on the enforcement of them, but I have no issue with any of those laws. People can harp on about "But what if it were biking that was banned" and the like, but Jaywalking, Smoking and Spitting all affect me negatively every day, and I applaud a country that does something about them.
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craigie b
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PostPosted: 14:49 - 28 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll find the sex laws are not actively enforced. But due to the Island being truly multi ethnic, the government is actually pandering to conservative Muslims and Chinese. They don't actively enforce the laws but have them as a token gesture to the people.

Last edited by craigie b on 15:06 - 28 Jan 2008; edited 1 time in total
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iooi
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PostPosted: 15:06 - 28 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty much the same as in this country, apart form the toliet flushing and Jaywalking....

Time we started to crack down on the muppets who think its fine just to wander accross the road any old how.


Something to be said for zero tolerance, stamp on the small and petty stuff, which while not dangerous is unsightly such as littering and spitting and these people will think twice about moving up to more serious stuff.
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 15:21 - 28 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

iooi wrote:
Pretty much the same as in this country, apart form the toliet flushing and Jaywalking....

Time we started to crack down on the muppets who think its fine just to wander accross the road any old how.


I bet you they don't, because round here it is almost exclusively chaps and chappettes who ain't from around 'ere.

Do you remember that DJ who got disciplined for complaining about Black people jumping in the road with dark clothing on, because they're hard to see?

She wasn't being racist, she was describing my daily commute.

Quote:

Something to be said for zero tolerance, stamp on the small and petty stuff, which while not dangerous is unsightly such as littering and spitting and these people will think twice about moving up to more serious stuff.


Spitting is extremely dangerous, as it spreads all sorts of diseases.

It's also potentially very dangerous for little teenagers trying to act hard, whose spit only just misses Mister James' trainers as he's walking back from the gym.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 19:57 - 28 Jan 2008    Post subject: Re: Singapore Laws. Draconian or Just? Reply with quote

craigie b wrote:

However, the infrastructure and the city is nothing short of outstanding. Everything is done to the highest standard. From the airlines (which are the best in Asia IMO), to the taxis to the public transport, everything runs smoothly and brilliantly. The streets are unbelievably clean and I've never felt safer in any country. There are direct visible positives to this level of regulation.

What do you guys think?


the key problem, is (excuse my other reply it was 13:29 I had less than a minute to type it out, you are comparing apples with oranges, city states compared to countries are fundamentally different.

With mass centralisation of people are major efficiencies, ie you have all the cops , hospitals, fire service, judicary in one place. And thus there is less need for duplication, and thus more efficient,

You can build mass transit systems and virtually guarentee that they will be used due to centralisation of people , you need less roads etc and due to centralisation other ancillaries like sewage electricity , phone lines etc are centralised.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 20:01 - 28 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mister James wrote:

It's also potentially very dangerous for little teenagers trying to act hard, whose spit only just misses Mister James' trainers as he's walking back from the gym.


The thing is Mister James if you love it so much why don't YOU go live there? , rather than inflicting your totalitarian ideals upon the rest of us who are content with the liberty vs security arrangements currently. Considering BCF talks about religion and politics BCF will be freed up.

Mister James wrote:
I can't comment on the enforcement of them, but I have no issue with any of those laws. People can harp on about "But what if it were biking that was banned" and the like, but Jaywalking, Smoking and Spitting all affect me negatively every day, and I applaud a country that does something about them.


The thing is what annoys you annoys others, and what pleases you annoys others, and thus it fits in fine with my emigration is NOT the ANSWER posts it is exchanging one set of problems and circumstance for another.

Excuse me but I lost me train of thought for a moment,

But it seems to be based on a climate of fearism , I fear that the government will do this therefore I will not do it,

Rather than say the old outdated altruistisc cause mentality which is ruined by the fact that people are egoistic, ie a positive thing rather than negative,

it would be interesting with a parrallel universe if all these fines etc were repealed for one week and see what'd happen. But since we don't have a parrallel universe , all we can do is let totalitarian states stay as they are and prevent our own states from becoming such things.
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.Chris.
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PostPosted: 21:06 - 28 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Singapore is my idea of hell on earth. I'd much rather live in a free society and accept any potential consequences.

That said at least they allow you to smoke in (some)pubs and clubs.
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Didge
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PostPosted: 21:26 - 28 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

RXS100_Chris wrote:
I'd much rather live in a free society and accept any potential consequences.


And what 'free' society would that be?
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Silver
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PostPosted: 22:29 - 28 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't be lead into thinking it's too much of a 'police state' until you've been there.

I've been there three times and have always been left with a positive impression. It is very tidy (the most noticable thing), but it's not like the police run around beating people. I never once saw the police in "action". That's not to say it doesn't happen, of course, but I always felt perfectly safe wondering around in the early hours of the morning.

Their laws, however strict compared to ours, have laxed over the years. There was a time, not so long ago, when men were not allowed long hair. I also believe they've relaxed their laws on chewing gum too.
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craigie b
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PostPosted: 02:50 - 29 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

The US had a tantrum when they imposed the chewing gum ban. To be frank, its a good idea, as the city is not marred by patches of grey gum everywhere. But the US have a free trade agreement with Singapore and said the ban on gum was illegal, so now you can get gum on prescription!

I think initially the laws had to be strict, as in 1965, the place would have been populated largely by under educated people from third world countries. To rapidly bring the country up to a first world standard it was necessary to change mindsets, unfortunately by draconian measures. As the place develops now, I think they are accepting the notion that they can relax certain laws since the population is largely modernised.
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Shay HTFC
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PostPosted: 12:08 - 29 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

craigie b wrote:
I think initially the laws had to be strict, as in 1965, the place would have been populated largely by under educated people from third world countries. To rapidly bring the country up to a first world standard it was necessary to change mindsets, unfortunately by draconian measures. As the place develops now, I think they are accepting the notion that they can relax certain laws since the population is largely modernised.


mmm, de ja vu. Apart from the Draconian measures. And guess which country now represents a shithole where everyone is scared of everyone else?
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 12:15 - 29 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Up at 05:30 every morning.
Cold showers with carbol-ache soap.
Jaggety arse woolen trousers and shirts.
Hard soled hob nail boots.
Porrige (With Salt No Milk).
No TV.
Bed at 19:00 Half hour after work finishes. (It's been dark for two and a half hours.)

Daily life up here in Scotland. Wink
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Shay HTFC
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PostPosted: 13:14 - 29 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:
Up at 05:30 every morning.
Cold showers with carbol-ache soap.
Jaggety arse woolen trousers and shirts.
Hard soled hob nail boots.
Porrige (With Salt No Milk).
No TV.
Bed at 19:00 Half hour after work finishes. (It's been dark for two and a half hours.)

Daily life up here in Scotland. Wink


I love the way you try to pretend that you don't drink a bottle of whisky before going to bed Rolling Eyes Thumbs Up
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Robby
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PostPosted: 15:04 - 29 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

He drink gin before bed, the whiskey is to wake him up and clean his teeth with in the morning.
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 15:58 - 29 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
Mister James wrote:

It's also potentially very dangerous for little teenagers trying to act hard, whose spit only just misses Mister James' trainers as he's walking back from the gym.


The thing is Mister James if you love it so much why don't YOU go live there? , rather than inflicting your totalitarian ideals upon the rest of us who are content with the liberty vs security arrangements currently. Considering BCF talks about religion and politics BCF will be freed up.


What are you gibbering about?

How does having a chat with some little scrote about spitting at me equate to inflicting totalitarian ideals on the entire country?

Quote:

Excuse me but I lost me train of thought for a moment,


That has become obvious.

I was quite clear in my post that I agree with all those laws, and applaud a society that is happy to enforce them. Could you please quote the section where I demanded that they were brought into being in the UK next week, by dint of martial law?

No?

Get back in your box you mentalist! Razz
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 18:34 - 29 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

robby wrote:
He drink gin before bed, the whiskey is to wake him up and clean his teeth with in the morning.


Gin? Gin? Sick

Only for poofs.
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SoND
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PostPosted: 22:21 - 29 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mister James wrote:
It's also potentially very dangerous for little teenagers trying to act hard, whose spit only just misses Mister James' trainers as he's walking back from the gym.



Then just don't spit where you're going to hit someone else or invade their personal space. Don't just make it a blanket ban with no room for discussion.
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 22:43 - 29 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoND wrote:

Then just don't spit where you're going to hit someone else or invade their personal space. Don't just make it a blanket ban with no room for discussion.


Please note bold print below:

Mister James wrote:
It's also potentially very dangerous for little teenagers trying to act hard, whose spit only just misses Mister James' trainers as he's walking back from the gym.


Mister James also said:

Quote:
Spitting is extremely dangerous, as it spreads all sorts of diseases.


Which is perhaps a more compelling reason.

Spitting is disgusting, anti-social and plain unnecessary. Do what you like in the privacy of your own home, but don't be spitting on the ground around me - I don't see how anyone could even attempt to put up a rational argument in favour of allowing people to spit.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 22:55 - 29 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mister James wrote:


Spitting is disgusting, anti-social and plain unnecessary. Do what you like in the privacy of your own home, but don't be spitting on the ground around me - I don't see how anyone could even attempt to put up a rational argument in favour of allowing people to spit.


the problem is Mister James is that you live in London , which is where alot of the £££££ is but it is an absolutely awful place to live , which has an amazing concentration of scum and low lives in an incredibly small area.
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Last edited by Itchy on 22:58 - 29 Jan 2008; edited 1 time in total
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 22:57 - 29 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:

the problem is Mister James is that you live in London , which is where alot of the £££££ is but it is an absolutely awful place to live.


I fully agree with you.

When I've cleared some debts (which I need the £££££ and shared living costs to do) I'll be moving out ASAP.
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pwntifex
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PostPosted: 02:45 - 30 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still haven't fully comprehended why all of the Chinese students at my university feel the need to congregate in enormous groups and speak only in Mandarin at the loudest possible volume whilst simultaneously walking really fast toward the smallest available door.

It's like a zerg rush. Terrifying.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 03:34 - 30 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

They don't tend to mingle do they?, they all look about 12 and are terrified.
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craigie b
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PostPosted: 03:41 - 30 Jan 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I still haven't fully comprehended why all of the Chinese students at my university feel the need to congregate in enormous groups and speak only in Mandarin at the loudest possible volume whilst simultaneously walking really fast toward the smallest available door.


Its because native Chinese has no concept of manners or personal space. The Chinese can be incredibly rude, whilst being completely oblivious to the fact. Cultural differences.
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