Police 'shoot to kill' cases.

[cestrian]

I just heard about this story on Radio 4... https://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,,1965935,00.html

Apart from the above and the Jean Charles de Menezes case, do you know of any similar cases?

Thanks

C

PS My reason for asking...Home Sec. Smith is trying to change the law. She wants to be allowed to use a Special Coroner instead of a jury, especially in cases that she wants to keep secret form you.

[Itchy]

The only ones I can recall off my head are

Stephen Waldorf a very old case , where he was shot while unarmed sitting in his car without prior warning,
and the police officer attempted to execute him (gun to head type scenario)

Also

Iraninan Embassy siege

Where Thatcher was apparently heard to say "it would be more conveinent if they all died"

which had eye witness reports of a kidnapper throwing down his weapon surrendering , and SAS troopers executing him.

James Ashley who was shot while naked in his flat.

Which is only semi related to such a thing,

But Jacqui smith is a git anyway, she things people are idiots she tweets on about crime falling in the UK
but in the same breath says she daren't walk out and about on town without body guards.

I often wonder why the tories don't make more hay about of this.
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[stinkwheel]

Yet another example of the executive directly interfering with the Judicial. It is a dangerous state of affairs.
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[cestrian]

Fantastic stuff. Any more?

[LeeR]

Elvis Gordon's brother was shot dead in Telford in '91 https://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_19980730/ai_n14166930 he's mentioned at the bottom of this article, what they don't mention is that he suffered from mental illness, but they killed him anyway.

EDIT: document in link moved see: alternative
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[Skudd]

Sometimes the offenders need a good shooting. I bet they would have done something wrong at sometime in the future anyway.
If they aren't local then it is fare game to shoot first ask questions later. Even better if they are Arab looking or smell a bit of curry.
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[MarJay]

There is no such thing as shoot to kill.

You simply can't shoot to wound. When you shoot at someone, you are shooting to kill by definition I'm afraid. All these movies where people get shot in the leg and stuff... its crap.

If you use a firearm on someone, it is expected that they are likely to die. Simple as.
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[colin1]

[thegubner]

[cestrian]

I know a few ex-army lads who used to shoot to incapacitate when on duty in Northern Ireland.

[MarJay]

[colin1]

i've just read a bit more about the azelle rodney thing, and maybe he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but there were guns in the car. Maybe improvised or deactivated guns, but in this case I dont think the police were quite so out of order in killing the guy.

He was ducking down, they thought he was reaching down for a weapon.

One of those situations where if you go in assuming a threat, you have to act as though the threat is real.

A bit like when new york cops shot a guy for reaching for his wallet.

He hadnt done anything wrong, but they hadnt necessarily been in the wrong in assuming he was reaching for a weapon.

The menendez case was different, in that they had had him under surveillance for a while and had confused him with an actual suspect, allowed him to get where if he was a threat he would have killed people, and then panicked and decided to kill him.

I can see where Marjay is coming from, but in some situations you can shoot to disable rather than shoot to kill.

If a policeman feels he has become under immediate threat, he is going to use all force possible to remove that threat.

If he thinks he can safely remove the threat with one controlled shot which wont be lethal, he will do that.----------------------------------
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[bazza]

[stinkwheel]

The army and the police are trained to aim for the centre of the main body mass where they are least likely to miss. If they hit where they are aiming, this means a bullet going through your liver and out through your spine. As such, they always shoot to kill.

I suspect the NI controversy wasn't as much a "shoot to kill" as a "Make sure you shot everyone we were after." policy.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[SoND]

What about de Menezes, shot 7 times in the head. That must have been on purpose?

[Mister James]

THAT was what you could fairly safely call a shoot to kill policy - designed to stop him triggering a suicide device.
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[JonB]

[Mister James]

[JonB]

I was on about Colin and yes he did.
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[Mister James]

Valid point there - they both waffle on a bit and I get them confused sometimes.

Still, no - he didn't!

He implied that there is either a single shot or a flurry of shots aimed at head and chest in the SAS-style 'double tap' fashion that we've all read about in Andy McNob books.

At no point did he imply that the single shot was likely to be aimed at the head (in fact his implication was exactly the opposite of this) or that a single headshot was survivable (although in some cases it has proven to be).
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>Soultrader Mister James, I bet you are a copper
>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you...

[bazza]

[cestrian]

An old friend and ex-army guy once told me they sometimes shot people in the legs if they wanted to stop and arrest them for the purpose of gathering intelligence. So he was lying, don't shoot the messenger.

[bazza]

[chris-red]

[pigmo]