Diesel cars...

[JonB]

Just a few questions about diesel cars.

I notice that they tend to be more economical on fuel, compared to an equivalent power petrol engine. Although with diesel being 5p dearer, i'm not sure how much benefit there is.

How different are the servicing requirements, my Dad said that diesels need to be serviced twice a year, but I can't see why.

Pretty sure the engines are more durable, but if anybody could shed light on this, that would be great.

Lastly, just wondered what good cars there are for under £2000 for someone aged 19 - so low insurance group, i'm currently driving a grp 6 car but a bit higher would be fine. That has a MPG of above 50mpg and is known to be reliable. I suppose parts cost should come in as well, cause if it does go wrong, don't want to have to pay silly prices.

The only thing that comes to my head right now are Peugeot 306's, but I had a petrol 106 and the elctrics were shocking and it is French.

Thanks.
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[Kickstart]

Hi

Diesels are better on fuel, although part of that is because diesel fuel has a higher energy content (~15% higher).

Servicing tended to be more often, but that will depends greatly on the car. Fuel filters need changing and they give the oil a rather harder time.

Engines used to be tougher. Not so so that is still the case these days. Seem to be plenty that commit suicide at fairly low mileages.

All the best

Keith
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[iCraig]

[Ste]

Veggy oil makes it much cheaper to run than petrols.

[Robby]

If you're happy with what you've got, and its giving you 50mpg, you're not going to save anything switching to a diesel car. Remember it always costs a fair chunk of money changing car - you won't get what you think your one is worth, and the new car will probably need a service, or tyres, or something fixed.
On top of that you'll need to switch the insurance over, and if you're midterm you'll have to pay whatever they want to charge you, plus an admin fee.
I can't think of any diesels in your price bracket under 1500cc, so you'll be paying higher road tax too - i think a diesel over 1500cc is £185/year. Certainly around that.

I had a pug 306 Dturbo, and it was shocking. Nothing low down, power band (when the turbo was boosting) was about 1500-3000 rpm, above that it had no more go, sounded like a rough tractor, and drank fuel. This was an 80k 1997 example, with no evidence of any particular TLC, but serviced regularly. Cost me a bit in fixing silly bits too, horrible to work on. Cost me 1400 quid, and in your price bracket I wouldn't expect much better, unless you go mega miles.

Modern common rail jobbies are meant to be much nicer to drive, but injection pumps seem fragile, the technology hasn't really matured yet and they do push silly pressure (they inject the fuel into the cylinder on the compression stroke, so they need to push against up to 20:1 compresion).

As with all modern cars the engines and gearboxes should just keep on going as long as you service them, maybe needing a head gasket or a camshaft at 200k. The rest of the car generally gets expensive between 100-150k, when the suspension, steering, and a/c are all totally worn out (thats not just dampers, thats all the bushes too, and the power steering rack and pump).

You get what you pay for, but on a student budget a reliable 50mpg fiesta would be worth holding on to.

[iCraig]

[Robby]

There are a few, but once you get down to that level they're not going to offer anything significant over a 1.25 fiesta. Power output will be similar, there's a lot more to go wrong, and whilst they may do 70mpg when driven sedately, thats not a significant saving over year, particularly if you're doing a fairly low mileage. Saving would at most be in the low hundreds, which would be equivalent to the cost of switching car.

Keeping a car for a while makes good financial sense. I'm getting round to putting the second set of tyres on my MR2 under my ownership, making it by far the longest I've owned a car. It also means that I can enjoy the benefits of the money that I've spent on it, rather than my usual practice of buying a slightly knackered car, spending a lot of money on it, then selling. Aka "Doing a Goose"

[iCraig]

For once Robby I agree with you.

Older Diesels only make sense if you do a high annual mileage i.e over 10k.

Its the newer ones that make more sense, like a Polo BlueMotion, Toyota Aygo which have either free road tax or £35 road tax. And they do about 75mpg.

[JonB]

Cool cheers for the advice.

Obviously it was just a fluttering idea in my head.

Stick with what I have got I think, at least until I have a decent income and run this one into the ground.

Just wish it wasn't purple.
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[JonB]

Obviously I am not going to be buying one, but just saw this nicety on autotrader...

https://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/VOLKSWAGEN+GOLF/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146,N-9-14-42-51-4294966995-4294967159/advert.action?R=200806303578386&distance=82&postcode=CV2+4EL&channel=CARS&make=VOLKSWAGEN&model=GOLF&min_pr=1000&max_pr=3000&max_mileage=80000

1.9TDi Golf, 77,000 miles on ze clock £3895.

Bloody 90bhp and it's £100 cheaper to insure than my fiesta.
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Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it?s worth.

[Stelmer]

Diesels post 2001 are taxed on CO2 emissions. My 406 2.0 HDi was only £115 to tax.

My old Peugeot 206 1.4 HDi company car was around £56 for a year.

Both are 90bhp. The 206 does around 400-500 miles on £45.

Don't dismiss the small cc Diesels. New High pressure fuel systems means that they are very efficient and quite pokey.

Also, diesels will eat up those miles. 150k isn't that high on a Diesel. My Peugeot 307 company car has nearly 124k and is a 53 plate.

[Dom_]

My stepdads 406 which he had from new has 190k on it now and all thats failed is the fuel pump.

Slightly related question, what is the likelyhood of you getting your tank dipped? Does the old jungle juice give off a different smell to regular white? Or any other differences?

[Phil_G]

[LeeR]

I bought a FIAT Marea Weekend (estate) a couple of years ago for £2750 off eBay, 1.9 JTD 110bhp 50,000 miles now done 70,000 miles. Averages 50-55mpg had it serviced twice around 10-12,000/12 months changing filters and fluids and on one occasion the glow-plugs as one had died. It's a very capable vehicle and lots of car for the money, my only gripe is it has 14" pressed steel wheels but I can live with that.

FIAT Marea on Autotrader
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[Mudskipper]

I drive my ex husbands 306 diesel all week every week- it's an M reg thats clocked over 100,000 miles.

Flies through every MOT, never gives any drama (and I rag it to fuck!!! )

I would recommend.
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[Walloper]

As Kickers stated, diesel fuel has a higher calorific value to that of petrol so you get more Bang for your Buck.
Servicing woes were mainly due to oil degradation but fuel refining has improved and better lubricating oils are available.
Diesel fuel contains higher amounts of sulphur than petrol. Petrol contains/ed about 0.1-0.2 % (What you smell from catalysed exhaust of petrol cars is the sulphur in there but normally masked by the aromatics in petrol. Catalytic converters burn off the perfumes)

Sulphur in the diesel fuel mixed with water from combustion forms sulphuric acid. This is really aggressive to the engine components.
Diesel engine oils contain neutralizing agents to deal with the sulphur from the fuel.
Over time the additives can no longer absorb the sulphur and the oil needs to be replenished.
The factor is TBN (Total Base Number) this determines a diesel engine lube oil quality.

Also, there is more soot from incomplete combustion process, this is why the old oil looks so bad. The lubrication properties will probably be normal but the oil becomes dirty and corrosive.

Also diesels are less enviro friendly than folk believe. They produce microscopic particulates which poison the air we breath.
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[MarkJ]

I have a Renault Clio 1.5 Diesel. It's absolutely spot on, if driven between 70-80 on the motorway it'll return 60mpg. Nice and comfortable, and a years tax is £30 because of the emissions stuff! Pretty cheap to insure, only problem I had with it was a crank bearing making a bid for freedom a few months ago which thankfully the garage paid for . That's the only worrying thing I've had happen. I haven't heard of that being a common problem with this car and I've put it down to bad luck - it happened at 45K miles. Since having a new crank bearing in it's been fine.

Mine is the 65bhp model, which whilst is not much power it has a fair amount for torque which makes up for the low power. It'll happily pull my bike on the trailer, a car full of people or my mate and all his guitar stuff with ease. It hardly feels slower when you add any weight to it.


Whilst we're on the subject of diesels, can anybody tell me if I could run this car (Dual Commonrail) on pure veg oil? I'm guessing not, as I've heard oil can become too thick in winter? Could I do a 1:1 mix of diesel:veg oil?

[Stelmer]

Must admit, I do prefer the pre-HDi tech Peugeots over the new HDi engines.

There's a fair few gripes with the HDi engines.

Oh the older diesels work better on Veg oil mixes apparently.

[Walloper]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel
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[Phoenix]

I just bought a 145K Nissan Primera 2.0 TD for £600, so far done about 750 miles in it and it seems to be giving a fairly consistent 45mpg, but I don't exactly drive it at peak efficiency. Could easily get 50 maybe slightly more I think if I took it easier plus I've not checked the state of the diesel and air filters yet so they might improve it.

Ultimately for me though it makes sense, as I do 250miles a week commuting and the cost of the car will easily be recovered aslong as it doesn't go bang (or the cambelt doesn't snap before I get round to replacing it). I still preferred my diesel Beemer but didn't want to spend that kind of money for a runabout and wanted slightly better economy from a smaller car. If you really want to keep costs to a minimum you have to factor in your mileage, initial outlay, tax, servicing etc and quite often a small petrol will work out cheaper.

[Walloper]

[AJI]

[WildGoose]

[Robby]

We must be growing up, I haven't been pouring money into my vehicles either. Just servicing, general maintenance, and lots of use.

Its still called doing a goose though, ever since the divine comedy of that bros. Did you goose a TRX or something as well?