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Clamping on a public pavement?

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haze266
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Joined: 03 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: 02:52 - 04 Apr 2008    Post subject: Clamping on a public pavement? Reply with quote
i got clamped a couple weeks ago, i think you know where this story is going...

i ran into sams to get a quick 2for2 meal and i left my moped by a tree on the pavement. when i came out i saw a man walking up to me saying i had been clamped. i laughed but when i looked at my front wheel i couldn't believe it. he told me it would be £130 plus £60 PCN (penalty charge notice) because i really wanted to be charged for him letting me know i had been clamped?.. but anyway like a real hustler he was quick to tell me he would let me off the PCN if i could come up with the £130 quickly. as i had just come out of college i had about £3 to my name. anyway to cut a long story short my dad had to come down n bail me out. he would not budge not even a tenner. gave him the money now and he just came gave me a 'receipt' that looked like any printout took the clamp and walked away...

well the point of this post is that i had parked the moped on a public pavement and although it was next to a pub that was private property it was not on its land.. have i been ripped off or was it a legal clamper?

is there any way to check what companys are legitimate as i still see this guy walking around neer my college looking for people to clamp..

thanks phil
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iooi
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PostPosted: 06:18 - 04 Apr 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
1st off parking on pavement big no-no.
As to how legal they are contact local police and council and ask them.
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chris-red
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Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 06:22 - 04 Apr 2008    Post subject: Re: Clamping on a public pavement? Reply with quote
Just bring out a grinder and cut the fucker off.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 08:24 - 04 Apr 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
A scooter has very little weight , I'd have probably have let him leave , go out and rent a van and put the ped in the back of a van, van rental is £30 for half a day here.

But remember if you ever get clamped sabotage the clamp ie super glue it so it costs them MORE to repair the lock than they just rinsed you of.
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 09:05 - 04 Apr 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Itchy wrote:
A scooter has very little weight , I'd have probably have let him leave , go out and rent a van and put the ped in the back of a van, van rental is £30 for half a day here.

But remember if you ever get clamped sabotage the clamp ie super glue it so it costs them MORE to repair the lock than they just rinsed you of.


They can legally charge you for vandalising their clamp. If you can get the bastard off without damaging it, then you're home free.

My car was clamped a few months back, and the idiot forgot to lock the padlock. So I took the clamp off. The clamper didn't like it... He drove his van in front of my car blocking it in. I wasn't happy at this, and pretty much had no choice but to pay. Cost me £130 which is actually more than they charge for parking on double yellow lines at Heathrow Airport!!!

Private clamping companies are scum. I don't often use that term, (I'm not Hetzer! Laughing) but in this case its very applicable.

Oh, and in case you're wondering, I parked in a public car park and stayed for less than the allotted free time. My crime? Leaving the car park! Apparently you can park there as long as you don't leave the compound. Well, At that time I didn't have any business at Dreams, Lidl or Macdonalds! But I still don't think its worth £130. Bastards.
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Cigaro
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Joined: 28 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: 12:37 - 04 Apr 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
That sounds dodgy as fuck to me. I saw a thing on 'The Real Hustle' about fly-by-night clampers that demand cash on the spot, usually offering to reduce the price if you pay now. I'd ask him for his ID and which company he works for, and ring that company.
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cestrian
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PostPosted: 12:48 - 04 Apr 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
You folks need to learn this......

"And several grants and promises made of fines and forfeitures before any conviction or judgment against the persons upon whom the same were to be levied" - English Bill of Rights 1689. Still on the statute books.

Simply, it is illegal to impose a fine or a forfeiture on any person without that person being judged by a jury of their peers in a court of law.

haze266, you are due a refund.

PS A guy from Hemel Hempstead just got two refunds for people who had their cars clamped last week. He pointed out that the clampers actions contravened the Bill of Rights.

Marjay, with regards to the guy that blocked you in, you should have called the police and quoted the Bill of Rights. The cops would have turned up and had no option but to tell him to move his car.
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 14:09 - 04 Apr 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
cestrian wrote:

Marjay, with regards to the guy that blocked you in, you should have called the police and quoted the Bill of Rights. The cops would have turned up and had no option but to tell him to move his car.


By that time he had the clamp back on, and I was very late for work.
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Feasty
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PostPosted: 14:13 - 04 Apr 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:

By that time he had the clamp back on, and I was very late for work.


Tsk tsk, where's your principals man!! Rolling Eyes

Surely it'd be better to lose your job and get one over the clampers any day!? Wink
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Peter3hg
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Joined: 21 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: 14:13 - 04 Apr 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
cestrian wrote:
You folks need to learn this......

"And several grants and promises made of fines and forfeitures before any conviction or judgment against the persons upon whom the same were to be levied" - English Bill of Rights 1689. Still on the statute books.


Just because it is on the statute books doesn't mean it's still good law in all respects. There is such a thing as "implied repeal" which means that if a later act goes against the earlier act, then the later act is the law (apart from the odd notable exception). This means that a lot of laws still are on the statute books that are partly or wholly meaningless these days.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 14:53 - 04 Apr 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
peter3hg wrote:


Just because it is on the statute books doesn't mean it's still good law in all respects. There is such a thing as "implied repeal" which means that if a later act goes against the earlier act, then the later act is the law (apart from the odd notable exception). This means that a lot of laws still are on the statute books that are partly or wholly meaningless these days.



Isn't the Bill of rights actually a form of contract between the monarch and the people and as such cannot be repealed by an act of Parliament as to do so would cause collapse of the British legal system?
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Peter3hg
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PostPosted: 15:46 - 04 Apr 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
sickpup wrote:

Isn't the Bill of rights actually a form of contract between the monarch and the people and as such cannot be repealed by an act of Parliament as to do so would cause collapse of the British legal system?


No, technically it has no superior status to any act. It's full name is "An Act Declaring the Rights and Liberties of the Subject and Settling the Succession of the Crown".
One of the main pillars of our legal system is that no act can technically bind any Parliament. The only act that in effect changes later acts is the Human Rights Act but even that can be repealed if Parliament so wish.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 17:42 - 04 Apr 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
peter3hg wrote:


No, technically it has no superior status to any act. It's full name is "An Act Declaring the Rights and Liberties of the Subject and Settling the Succession of the Crown".



As as I said a contract between the monarch and the people then?

peter3hg wrote:


One of the main pillars of our legal system is that no act can technically bind any Parliament. The only act that in effect changes later acts is the Human Rights Act but even that can be repealed if Parliament so wish.



Except the bill of rights is what our rights are based on and all acts bind Parliament as Parliament may not act outside of the law.

If Government was to deny the Bill of rights it would destroy the Monarchy and in turn destroy Parliament.
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Peter3hg
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PostPosted: 18:09 - 04 Apr 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
sickpup wrote:


As as I said a contract between the monarch and the people then?


There's no contract. If Parliament decide to override one of the rights then we have no legal comeback because it would no longer be law.

Quote:
A statutory unentrenched bill of rights exists as a separate act that is passed by a legislative body. As such it can be amended or repealed by the body that created it. It is therefore not as permanent as a constitutional bill of rights. A constitutional bill of rights cannot be changed except with the approval of that country's voting public.


We have no written constitution in this country. There is nothing that is untouchable by any Parliament. They could repeal every single act and start afresh if they really wanted to.

Quote:

Except the bill of rights is what our rights are based on and all acts bind Parliament as Parliament may not act outside of the law.

If Government was to deny the Bill of rights it would destroy the Monarchy and in turn destroy Parliament.


There are many later acts that essentially set out Parliaments and the Monarchs role such as The Parliament Act (1911). I would imagine very little would change if the Bill was repealed.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 22:42 - 04 Apr 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Taken from Wiki as I can't be bothered to rewrite it...

Quote:
Before William and Mary were affirmed as co-rulers of England and Ireland, they accepted a Declaration of Right drawn up by the Convention Parliament which was delivered to them at the Banqueting House, Whitehall, on 13 February 1689. Having accepted the Declaration of Right, William and Mary were offered the throne, and were crowned as joint monarchs in April 1689. The Declaration of Right was later embodied in an Act of Parliament, now known as the Bill of Rights, on 16 December 1689.


So take away the bill of rights, negate it and the succession for the UK throne is disrupted. Why? because you have taken away the agreement that allows the current monarch to sit.

The Government may change whatever they want but if they break the law they are still answerable to the law and the monarch. Why? Because the Armed forces and the Police still swear an oath to Queen and country NOT the Government regardless of the fawning of many of the latest Chief Police officers.

Statutes also still have to be approved by the Sovereign and the Government still have to request the use of the armed forces. So if the agreement ie the Bill of rights is removed or negated by the governmant you end up with constitutional anarchy. Could be interesting.

Incidentally if the law had changed as much as people think with the EEC we would have adopted the code Napoleon which I for one wish we had. This would have stopped many of the miscarriages of justice over the last few decades.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 19:34 - 05 Apr 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
sickpup wrote:

So take away the bill of rights, negate it and the succession for the UK throne is disrupted. Why? because you have taken away the agreement that allows the current monarch to sit.

The Government may change whatever they want but if they break the law they are still answerable to the law and the monarch. Why? Because the Armed forces and the Police still swear an oath to Queen and country NOT the Government regardless of the fawning of many of the latest Chief Police officers.

Statutes also still have to be approved by the Sovereign and the Government still have to request the use of the armed forces. So if the agreement ie the Bill of rights is removed or negated by the governmant you end up with constitutional anarchy. Could be interesting.


But there is a nuclear crater sized hole in your argument , in that the law and the monarch are no more than string puppets of the government, and so are the police and the armed forces thus if you have to ask permission from something you control in effect you are asking permission from yourself.

The monarch is no more than a figure head and is about as powerful as a trainee community support officer, what parliment
says the queen MUST accept.(queens speech days you can see the Chagrin).

If you look back to 2005, Blair on election day to bury bad news , exiled the people of the Galapagos Islands forever since we'd built a gigantic airbase on it.

The queen like the man from Del Monte said yes to this dispicable act.

Thus asking for the use of the armed forces is just going through the motions, this isn't 1215 where the boy king went before the revolutionaries and told them to go home.

The queen is being bribed to live a cushy life and doesn't want to rock the boat, she makes a whimper of discontent and the government suddenly review her living expenses.

The BBC say something the government don't like it budgets need to be 'reviewed'

The HoL , says no , ah we must reform the HoL.

Etc

You may be technically correct , but you are attempting to stop a tsunami by holding your hand up and shouting stop.
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sickpup
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Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 23:13 - 05 Apr 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Itchy wrote:


The queen is being bribed to live a cushy life and doesn't want to rock the boat, she makes a whimper of discontent and the government suddenly review her living expenses.



This bit actually points out the validity of the argument and rather blows a hole in yours.

For the queen to accept the 'Bill of rights' removal from the statute books removes her right to be queen. To an extent we are saved by the greed of the monarchy.

Remember as well Prince Charles has been accused of meddling in politics quite often, hopefully he will continue to do so.
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kawakid
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Joined: 15 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: 01:00 - 06 Apr 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
cestrian wrote:

Marjay, with regards to the guy that blocked you in, you should have called the police and quoted the Bill of Rights. The cops would have turned up and had no option but to tell him to move his car.


By that time he had the clamp back on, and I was very late for work.



I'd have just decked him or phoned the lads and given him a proper seeing to, scum.
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and
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PostPosted: 01:09 - 06 Apr 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
...

Last edited by and on 16:59 - 10 Mar 2010; edited 1 time in total
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cheesyleps
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 31 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: 01:14 - 06 Apr 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
cestrian wrote:

Simply, it is illegal to impose a fine or a forfeiture on any person without that person being judged by a jury of their peers in a court of law.


Surely this then also makes speeding fines illegal also? You certainly aren't tried by a jury of your peers in a court of law when the gatso sends you a nice £60 charge and 3 points on your licence.

I would imagine the judge would uphold most fines, but how many would actually get through to a court and how much would it cost them?
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lozzypop1
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Joined: 04 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: 08:30 - 06 Apr 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
cheesyleps wrote:
cestrian wrote:

Simply, it is illegal to impose a fine or a forfeiture on any person without that person being judged by a jury of their peers in a court of law.


Surely this then also makes speeding fines illegal also? You certainly aren't tried by a jury of your peers in a court of law when the gatso sends you a nice £60 charge and 3 points on your licence.


If you're going down this road, why not stop and think about a magistrates court. No jury... Rolling Eyes
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Cigaro
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PostPosted: 09:05 - 06 Apr 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
So, Haze, if you've seen the guy about since, have you asked him his name and who he works for?

If people are going around clamping cars illegally, it'd be nice of you to report him to the police. A real clamper wouldn't offer to reduce the price.
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Nebzor
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PostPosted: 11:31 - 06 Apr 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
lozzypop1 wrote:
If you're going down this road, why not stop and think about a magistrates court. No jury... Rolling Eyes


The magistrates ARE the jury of your peers. They are normal people Wink
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