Getting a welder?

Itchy · Super Spammer Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Karma :

I got an angle grinder and now can't think how I'd do without it, then a drill , then more and more power tools,

But one thing that eludes me is a welder , it seems to be such a useful item according to many folks , how much $$$ damage am I looking at for a decent/basic one and what should I look for and of course running costs? .

Alot of my little prototype projects would be possible with a welder,

Any thoughts?

Ta
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Robby · Dirty Old Man Joined: 16 May 2002 Karma :

Welder is a great tool to own.

My one - description and costs.

MIG welder - weldspares 100a, 4 power settings and variable wire feed speed. Fairly normal hobby welder. Can weld continuously for about 20-30 minutes, then it needs to cool down for at least an hour. Can take 0.6 or 0.8mm wire as it is, could probably get the right feed wheel to use thicker wire, but I don't think the welder is powerful enough to make it worthwhile.
I use it to weld mild steel square bar, and up to 3mm plate for the car I'm building.

Cost me £55 second hand on ebay. Came with:
Spool of 0.6mm wire (already on there and set up)
CO2 gas regulator
Mostly empty bottle of CO2 (pub canister)

Bits I have bought:
0.8mm welding wire (0.8kg spools, one of them lasts a good while). £5/spool.
Converter to use my CO2 regulator on an Argon bottle. £8.
Tips, shrouds, gas feed line. ~£15.
Welding mask - cheap auto reactive one off ebay. £25.
Gas bottle - £40 deposit, £25 refill with argon (argoshield light).

Things I have learnt - total novice.
If your gas bottle is empty, or you're not using gas, your welds will be shit and penetration will be poor.
Argon produces better (easier) welds than CO2.
Practice on scrap metal of a similar thickness to what you will be welding.
Have a look online for a MIG tutorial - the first ones to come up on google are good.
You use different wire to weld aluminium than you do for steel.
Gasless MIG is a bit crap. ARC is cheap and nasty. TIG is expensive and very nice. MIG is good for a beginner and puts down good welds. Oxy-acetylene is lovely to play with and versatile, but you need to get the gas, and store it safely.

WildGoose · White Van Man Joined: 21 Mar 2002 Karma :

I bought one, but I havent started actually welding stuff properly yet. As finances aren't allowing at the moment.

Clarke 151EN Turbo Gas/No Gas - new, so was expensive, Clarke is considered the superior make among the hobby welders, going by what the folk on the mig welding forum say. It was £200 quid.

It is set up for gasless, but I intend to use gas, mainly because the flux cored gasless wire is so damn expensive £50/5kg spool, compared to 5-10 quid per spool of the standard wire.

It can use 0.6 and 0.8 standard wire, and obviously 0.9 gasless wire.

Lots of people use CO2 pub gas cos they can get it cheap, but BOC argoshield is the stuff to use, if you want a tidy result. It's not cheap, but its cheaper than using the gasless wire or cocking up the welds.

https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/index.php - This site also hosts the tutorials that I think robby mentioned.

I intend to use mine mainly for welding my van back together, since no panel on it is thicker than 2mm, I doubt I will ever get near the 150 amps its capable of, but its nice to have so I can draw my focus to other projects later on.

MIG welding is accepted as the easiest welding form for beginners, and gives fairly decent results, but proper preparation of the metal is the key to everything, the welding process itself is a matter of seconds.

Take proper precautions regarding the possible damage to eyes and skin from the arc, decent helmet, gauntlets, and 100% cotton clothing. Fire extinguisher/bucket of sand wouldn't go amiss either.

[EDIT] Get a welder designed to be used in a standard 13amp house socket, otherwise you may do some damage, or have to get a dedicated circuit made up, similar to what an electric cooker would require.

Use a residual current device when the welder is plugged in, and replace the plug every 6 months to a year.

Duty cycle, refers to the percentage of a 10 minute period that the welder is capable of welding for, until it needs a rest, the higher the amps the lower the duty cycle for a particular setting. The higher quality the welder, the higher the duty cycle, generally.

For example, 60% duty cycle at 100 amps, would allow you to weld at that setting for 6 minutes, before having to rest the machine for 4. At low settings such as 30 amps, my machine claims to have a 100% duty cycle.

Read the manual, manufacturers will advertise their machine at the maximum amps most likely, but may neglect to mention it can only produce those amps for 30 seconds before cutting out.
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b-f-c · Traffic Copper Joined: 06 Sep 2006 Karma :

What they said, and buy the biggest amp unit you can afford - they higher the amps the better range of welding you can do. 150 - 180 should cover you if you're going to play around with frame welding

MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :

I'd really like a TIG welder (as I can actually TIG weld...) but I can't afford one! Sad

I'm thinking actually a small lathe would be the first thing on my list before a welder perhaps... but thats just me.

I really want a big workshop with loads of kit in it. But I can't afford it.

Maybe I need to do some more overtime...
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Shaane · World Chat Champion Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Karma :

ZRX61 · Victor Meldrew Joined: 05 Nov 2003 Karma :

Best gas for Mig is C25: 75% CO2/25%Ar.. & buy the biggest bottle available, usually about 175Cu/Ft

ZRX61 · Victor Meldrew Joined: 05 Nov 2003 Karma :

Stevep · Scooby Slapper Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Karma :

As a class one welder TIG is by far the way to go welds are better and cleaner no splatter and what is more to the fact neater but they are more expensive. They can be bought at places like Machine Mart or even on ebay but the best place to look out for them is at a auction when a manufacture has shut down.
That is where I got my last one from and they use argon as well from boc
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ZRX61 · Victor Meldrew Joined: 05 Nov 2003 Karma :

And don't buy some Chiwanese POS, You can never get parts for them (or even a wiring diagram).
Who makes the good ones on the UK? Do you get Miller, Lincoln, Hobart or Esab?

tutton · World Chat Champion Joined: 04 Jan 2008 Karma :

Never heard of any of them welders. Laughing

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Cammy · Scooby Slapper Joined: 01 Apr 2008 Karma :

Used to use the Gas welders, pretty cool stuff - the ammount of times i burnt my hand on the metal thinking it had cooled down, and thats with heatproof gloves Rolling Eyes

But welding isnt a first timer job if your gona use it straight away even electric welding - you gota have the right speed and tempo of moving the metal lava and its not easy.

I dont know who makes Welding kits but try going down to your local willy wilsons or any electrical wholesaler for directions of who sells them and for good prices, maby a local garage will maby have an old one they dont need? Razz

~Cammy
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Itchy · Super Spammer Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Karma :

Right thanks,

I think that I shall go do some night classes on welding before I actually decide to get one to try before I buy in essence,

all my projects seem to involve welding box section steel into corners , I'm sure I can just make flanges and bolt ends on for now, just looks awful!.
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Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

gmanxiii · World Chat Champion Joined: 20 Nov 2006 Karma :

wanna help me weld some bolts to me snapped studs? Razz

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WildGoose · White Van Man Joined: 21 Mar 2002 Karma :

ZXR61 mentioned ESAB and Lincoln, you can get both of those makes in the UK, and they are both proper decent quality, but also serious money for hobby welding.

Clarke seems to be the top of the tree in most peoples opinion for hobby welding, SIP one of the worst.

Talk to a member on the mig welding forums called 'weldequip' he sorted me out with all my gear, and knows his stuff.

another good site for info and tips..
https://www.markthewelder.co.uk/index.html goes as detailed as you could possibly want to know, although the "brain dump" style is a bit much for me at times.
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So in other words, he stopped you for being flagrantly in posession of a motorcycle in direct contravention of the Hippies, Darkies and People Whose Face I Don't Like The Look of (Police Powers) Act. 1976

Ichy · World Chat Champion Joined: 15 Jul 2005 Karma :

ZRX61 · Victor Meldrew Joined: 05 Nov 2003 Karma :

ZRX61 · Victor Meldrew Joined: 05 Nov 2003 Karma :

These are pretty sweet:
https://www.millerwelds.com/products/multiprocess/xmt_350/

tutton · World Chat Champion Joined: 04 Jan 2008 Karma :

Just found out
all the ones we used in college
were Kempi
or however you spell it the red ones Smile

and cheers for the linkeh.
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Past: '05 Peugeot XPS '99 Aprillia RS125 '94 FZR600R
Current: '02 ZX636 A1P '51 CCM R30