Went to collect a bike - Was mis-described

[Faraz]

Went to collect a Tzr 50 this afternoon that I bought off e-Bay, with my dad.
I live in Edinburgh and the bike was in Dalgety Bay, Fife. So we drove the van down and found the guys house. Walked through the gate and saw a chav standing next to the bike. Said its his bike and he is selling it because he has lost interest due to the fact that "The bikes no fast enough anymore."

Told us to "Wait fur his faythur cuz hes doin thu deuwl."

Whilst doing so we started looking over the bike and noticed the two massive cracks the legnth of about half the fairing and several deep scratches. Same story on the other fairing and one side on the back. deeply scratched headlights and general tattyness.

None of this was mentioned in the description.

Description:

This is a great bike, looks stunning and drives really well. Easily reaches 50mph.

This must be the best 50cc manual bike on the market.

Please feel free to e-mail any questions

If the bike sells with the buy it now price , I`ll tax and test it for 12 months

Thanks for looking.


The "faythur" arrived and this is how the conversation went.

My dad - There seems to be a problem with the condition of the bike.

Him - *touches fairing* Yeah there is some minor scratches.

Me - Err actually its quite severe. Both fairings are cracked and there are deep scratches all around the bike.

Him - So you dont want it?

My dad - No I think we will leave it and find another.

Him - Ok ill refund your £30 deposit but im keeping £12 listing fee.

My dad - Err its not our fault you mis-described it.


*5 minutes later*


Him - Ok ill take a small hit and refund you £30.


Whether he does is another matter though.


No point to this post, sorry if I bored you.

Will post his name, address and phone number on the www if he doesnt return the deposit.
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'56 Yamaha MT-01
'05 Nissan 350z Roadster GT
3 words dude.. Fvck. Yes.

[kawakid]

Why do people list stuff when its like that.

Its not like its something small they are going to post and pay with paypal.

If it was me I would be brutally honest and offer to take 12megapixel shots of all locations and then email them.
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I've a twin and a 4.

[G]

Where does it say 'no scratches', 'fairings in good condition' or similar?

I wouldn't make a listing like that, but he seems to have done it perfectly 'legitimately' and quite reasonably doesn't owe you your deposit back.

You entered in to a binding contract to buy the bike, which does seem to be 'as described' and are now breaking.

Ok, he said 'looks stunning', but he quite reasonably may well think that.

Did you contact him about the general condition of the bike before the auction?
I almost always do (standard set of questions about mechanical condition) and have turned up and paid for a bike with a dodgy camchain the time I didn't; I could have walked away, but I won the auction and the auction didn't say "runs perfectly", so more fool me.

Remember, ebay is an *auction* not a bike show-room, though often as you can see you get just as good service.

[Madmanx]

Where in Edinburgh are you.?

I lived there for 33 years.
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https://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll9/manxhornet/Hornet001.jpg

[Faraz]

[Faraz]

[Graham88]

G I usually think you make very valid points, but I think you're fighting a losing battle there.

As said in the post above, you don't put "Engine included" in the listing.

Then again, I'd never buy a bike without going to view it first anyway.

[Alex A]

When buying anything second hand on ebay, always assume that unless condition is described (ideally thoroughly and with pictures), it's more than likely to be shabby. A generic description of the merits and specification of the product for sale without any reference to the specific example for sale should act as a big f**k off 1000W neon warning light to anyone with a mite of common sense. (Such an item could of course be listed by a novice and turn out to be a minter and a bargain, but that's rare nowadays.)

Personally I wouldn't have given that listing more than a passing glance (unless the price was very low and I was prepared to undertake cosmetic repairs if necessary). The actual condition as you describe it here comes as no surprise whatsoever.

Talking about an engine being present or not is not a good analagy. You're talking about the content of the item, not the condition. You can assume from a Hayabusa listing that unless otherwise stated, all the bits that normally constitute the bike are present and correct. You cannot make any assumptions as regards to condition - that's all down to the listing details (age/mileage/registration date/MOT etc) and description. With this bike, all the bits that normally make up a TZ50 were (presumably) there, fully constructed, and (presumably) the bike turned over and ran (doesn't even have to run well - the seller never said it did). That is all you can expect on the basis of a non descript bike listing like that.

You'll do well to remember this: The absence of cosmetic remarks in a used item listing does not mean that the item is mint (or even in 'good' condition). Nor does it mean the seller has mis represented a less than perfect item. Sellers are not obliged to specify the condition of goods (although they usually will), only the content. Therefore, as a bidder you must accept that the condition of used items, unless stated, is an unknown. It may be underhand and dishonorable for sellers to list tatty/damaged items without saying so, but it will rightly attract less and/or lower bids from those people who are sensible enough to heed the blatant warning signs (as noted above).

When confronted with such a listing, you must ask detailed questions and try to get pictures before bidding, accept that it's bound to be something of a lottery, and price your bid on the worst case scenario with the limited information available. Always expect the worst, never the best and you won't be disappointed and end up making wasted journeys or losing money. With vehicles in particular, it's obviously best to go out of your way to check them out first hand before bidding.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why you refused to complete the transaction. It's shameful to list a marked/cosmetically damaged bike like that without mentioning the poor condition, and I strongly disapprove of those who do it. But it's not technically wrong, and unfortunately you were misguided (presumably by ebay inexperience and naivity). The bike (condition) can't have been mis-discribed; it wasn't described at all. In fact, all the seller committed to it being was a complete TZ50 of some state or other. As G stated above, technically you are contracted to buy the bike despite the condition, and should consider yourself lucky that the seller isn't kicking up much of a fuss and keeping your deposit. You may have the revamped feedback system to thank for that.

Better luck next time.
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Current: Ducati Panigale R / Ducati Streetfighter S / Suzuki GSX-R1000 L5

[Him]

What he said ^^^ plus if buying stuff of fleabay i never ever send a deposit, always go collect with cash.

[MattEMulsion]

Ebay seems to have its fair share of tossers misdescribing their crap and trying to palm it off as decent stuff.

For example a few weeks ago I bought a pair of standard R1 indicators on a tail piece that were described as "unmarked" and "off a mint R1". I did everything right, I emailed the seller to check the condition and he told me that there was a slight mark on the underside of one of the indicators but you couldn't even feel it with your finger nail. Other than that they were excellent condition. So I bid on the item and subsequently won.

When the item arrived it was battered and tatty and nothing like what had been described. The photo had been taken in such a way that you couldn't see how scuffed the indicators actually were and the final straw was when you turned the item over I found that the wiring looms for the indicators had been cut through and hence the plugs were gone.

Now I would assume that something as major as the wiring loom being cut off really ought to be mentioned in the item description and there was still the 'unmarked' and 'off a mint bike' discrepancy too.

Needless to say I emailed the seller and told him in no uncertain terms that I wanted a refund otherwise I was going to open a dispute about it. He refunded me straightaway and basically said that if I was going to be so picky then I should buy a brand new item. Picky? I only wanted the item that I reasonably thought I had bought, not some crap that was totally misdescribed. In fact the item is still sitting here on my garage floor and I have told him if he wants it, then he is to arrange the collection of it. Somehow I don't think he will bother.

Oh and if it was you and you happen to read this thread, yes you are a tosser.
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Yamaha YZF-R6

[petemell]

The item descriptions vary on eBay, some sellers go into great depth about every aspect of the vehicle with loads of photos. Others tell you hardly anything.

It is up to the buyer to view it first or enquire before putting a bid on, if it was miss described and no mention of damage etc I would just walk away.

[G]

I think people forget this is an *auction*; go to a 'real life' auction and try bidding on something, then saying "oh, I didn't see that, sorry don't want to hand my money over" and see what happens to you .

If the bike had been missing bits that make it an TZR50 (such as an engine), especially after specifying it does 50mph, that's quite reasonable to not pay up.

It doesn't sound like the bike was a 'complete wreck' it sounds pretty much like it was as described.
If there is very little description, it is most definitely up to you to find out more and bid accordingly.

If the bloke was feeling arsey, he could probably take you to the small claims court or something to get you to pay up.

[Faraz]

[JonB]

[M1ghtyDUck]

I just want to add, ebay do say that anything less than perfect condition should be noted in the description. All damage etc. should be there.

So, it's not a case of assuming it's bad unless they say it's good, it's completely the opposite. If they don't mention bad points, there shouldn't be any. If there are, void contract.

[kawashima]

I think it was lucky that you were with your dad there. What an evil seller .
Your avatar is TZR50, is it the bike?
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own:2020 Serow 250
owned: 2012 YB125SP, 2008 TDM900, 2005 W650, 2002 LS125R, 2002 CB400SF, NS50F, C50 / Trip to UK(2009), Hokkaido touring(2013)

[Faraz]

[ms51ves3]

Another bike will come along soon, just keep looking

I seem to find more genuine people on Autotrader than eBay, have a look there.

[Alex A]

[M1ghtyDUck]

As far as I remember it's on various pages giving advice to sellers. I'm not sure it would hold up as being in their terms and conditions or anything like that, but the intention is obvious.


Found a couple:

"Is the item new, used, or still under warranty? Be sure to mention any flaws or repairs." https://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/title_desc_ov.html#description


In the description, describe the item clearly, accurately, and completely. Include information about the condition, color, brand, product type, model, size, and style of the item.
https://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/checklist.html


I'm sure there are plenty more references, but I can't be spending all day on it. Either way, the intention is, if there's damage. You SHOULD mentioned it. None of this "they didn't say it wasn't so it must be." That leads to the aforementioned lack of engine problem, and is quite frankly childish and absurd. What's that? You're gay? Well you never said you weren't so you must be... etc.

[G]

Those are, unfortunately as suggested, just 'guides', not rules.
So it is a 'nice' thing to do, but not required.

What is required is honesty. However that does mean that a vague description should be approached with caution.

[Faraz]

Gave £30 deposit.

Total refunded: £15.79

Listing Fee: £12.99
Paypal Fee for deposit: £1.22 GBP
____________________
'56 Yamaha MT-01
'05 Nissan 350z Roadster GT
3 words dude.. Fvck. Yes.

[leatherpatche...]

Why give a deposit without even seeing the bike? That's crazy.

Buyer beware, especially with goods advertised on the internet.

Lucky good old dad was there to help you sort this mess.

As usual the advice is: if it looks too good to be true, it almost certainly is.

Bikes like the one you were buying are ten to the dozen. You really don't need to take a risk buying one. Bid/look carefully and beware buyer remorse.

But that's such an old load of advice that it's hardly worth stating.

Good luck with your purchase.

[frantic_2003]

i brought my bike off ebay and before i bidded i said "DOES IT RUN, and is the engine in good condition" the replied yes, and i happend to win the bid and rented a van and drove 40 miles sat in traffic for 2 hours. finially got there and it was a sh*t bike garage and the bike didnt start, crank bearings had gone ect....... bike was in sh*t condition
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https://www.bikepics.com/members/frantic/

[moog]