A Week in Court. VERDICT.

[plugger147]

Today I went to watch the start of my brothers court case, last August he crashed his subaru (on the A48 near cowbridge)writing it off, breaking a few ribs and collapsing a lung. Worst of all his mate who was in the passenger seat died, leaving a 7 year old son.

He was arrested for causing death by dangerous driving and bailed several times. (He had always said he wasn't doing anything silly and tbh I did think he may have been doing something stupid at the time.) In February he was charged and given the evidence against him, this amounts solely to 2 tyre's being below the legal limit. I couldn't believe how they could've kept him in an emotional hole for so long, he's really cut up about the accident, he's wrote to and met with the guy's girlfriend, mother and ex wife who has his son. They have been absolutely brilliant (I think he might have dealt with it better if they had blamed him) and his mother nearly started me bawling when my mother went to tell her how sorry she was for the ladies loss, she grabbed my mother and told her that she was sorry that we were there and they didn't want any court case and that it was an accident.

Most of the morning was spent going over legal stuff, then his barrister brings out a complaint that the prosecution have only given him more photo's and 2 videos they want to use as evidence that morning and a man who's details they have been requesting for 6 months. The man had a very similar accident 10 days after my brother in exactly the same spot, the police spoke to the man on friday and has since gone on a walking holiday in the peak district and can't be in court. It was one of the funniest scene's ever when these guy's with wigs start bickering followed by a bollocking of the prosecution barrister by the judge.

After the jury coming in we listen to 5 witnesses and they all said that he hadn't done anything stupid and wasn't speeding, I wasn't surprised but more relieved just in case there had been something that he'd kept quite. 4 of them said that there was a flow of water that came down the right side of the road and then flowed across it around where he lost control although it had stopped raining and the rest of the road was dry. They kicked us out until the morning where we get to here from tyre experts and after seeing the tyre's I really don't think it's worth all this hastle, they are not that bad there are no completely bald parts, you'd look at them and think I gotta change them soon.


Sorry for the long post but after witnessing all this and not being a fan of the judicial system I would like some opinions. Is a case where it's completely against the victims family's wishes and the punishment can't be any worse than the defendant is putting himself through in the interest of the public and how do all these useless lazy chavs get to do whatever they fucking want?
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Tristan the wrote: just whipped off my trousers to find a big bruise on my arse, caused by matt rear ending me...

[Cigaro]

I think what's done is done. It's all very well putting people in prison, but that won't bring back the guy who died, will it? An accident is an accident.

A driving ban, might be a better idea.

[Skudd]

It doesn't matter what the victims family think, if your brother is to blame and broke laws or was negligent then the law will deal with him irrespective of others opinions.
If they find that he was negligent with regards to the standard of his tyres ( 1.6mm across 3/4 breadth of the tyre with no bald patches) and even with the water stream ( he should have been going the appropriate speed for the conditions ) then they will punish him accordingly.
No matter what happens a man lost his life and a young lad will not see his Dad again, No punishment will reverse that fact, but a punishment may prevent someone else from being negligent if that is what he has been.
I do hope a fare conclusion will be delivered for all those concerned.
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[sanchezz_182]

I know how you feel mate. lost two friends in a car crash about a year ago, all young lads 16/17 driver survived as did the other driver he was racing when they lost control and went head on into another car killing a girl coming the other way. One got 12 years one got 10.

Not saying that your brother will get that as know one else (outside of the car) was involved.
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no sig, thats gay!!

[plugger147]

I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished and if you ask him he'll tell you whatever they do to him can never be enough, we both know only to well what it's like to lose your dad at a young age too. What pisses me off is the poor families that have lost loved ones are infuriated by the punishments drivers get, yet this family have heard the evidence and are genuinely worried that he's going to be sent to prison are put through a badly prepared court case.

2 Examples that spring to mind.

Can't even be bother to turn up in court and:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-398901/Fury-driver-killed-cyclists-fined-180.html

6 kids in a corsa (local):
https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/search/display.var.1749682.0.crash_trial_teen_not_guilty_of_causing_death_by_dangerous_driving.php

He was driving appropriately for the conditions if the 5 witnesses are to be believed, under 70 on a dual. The rest of the road was dry apart from the one patch that crossed the road. Apparently there have been 4 fatal accidents at that spot in the last 5 years under the same circumstances and only last night a biker crashed in the same place. https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/cardiff-news/vale-glamorgan-news/2008/06/23/bike-crash-puts-man-in-hospital-91466-21133118/
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Tristan the wrote: just whipped off my trousers to find a big bruise on my arse, caused by matt rear ending me...

[Kwaks]

Have some faith in the justice system, unless you have ommitted something or the prosecution spring a surprise I can see this case being thrown out or a slap on the wrist at the end of it.


Someone in the jury will be able to recognise that sometimes, just sometimes, accidents happen without blame.
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Fallen Angel "Nae sniffing my seat now!!!!! "
www.cliqueycuntsmcc.co.uk
I AM NOT A FAST RIDER!!!!!!!!!

[chris-red]

I think it is punishment enough knowing whart he has done to a mate, I don't see the point of ruining more lives and wasting money on this.
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
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[MarJay]

I hope G posts in this thread as a similar thing happened to him.

The accident that occurred wasn't G's fault but they prosecuted him for having a bald tyre on the trailer. Its pretty standard to do that I think as they really are in desperate need for someone to blame. I don't think that the British judicial system has any room for pure 'Accidents' any more.

I inspected the tyre on the trailer before we set off, and I can tell you now that it had a good amount of tread and was properly inflated. Basically the police and 'experts' screwed him over. From what I can gather the police wouldn't have had it any other way due to the seriousness of the accident.

{edit} I should point out that G wasn't up for dangerous driving or anything else, it was purely the defective tyre they charged him with. He doesn't read random banter, but I've PM'd him and hopefully he can add his own perspective for you. {edit}
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[G]

A quick over-view of what happened to me.
Car accident, in which two of my friends were badly injured. I had been driving in a queue of traffic doing about 50mph, with a trailer.
Police find exposed wire on trailer tyre - I can 100% say the tyre wasn't in this state when we left, as Marjay suggests.
Police get a tyre expert that suggest various reasons the tyre might have been in that state, but also categorically state that it was the cause of the accident.

I get £400 fine and 3 points - in total through various bits of the accident I reckon I was over £10k down. So not very nice when I get a fine a fair bit worse that I've seen people getting for causing damage to public property when drink driving with out a licence.
I could have employed a tyre expert, but it'd likely cost me a few thousand pounds, which I couldn't afford. If the damage to the tyre had occured a mile down the road, I would be just as guilty of the offence. So I ended up pleading guilty.

I later find that what the police had not included in the prosecution report was a diamgram which shows scrapes in the road where the trailer rim had scraped along the road.
This to me suggests that the tyre came off the rim as it went sideways; rubbing the tyre sidewall along the road, possibly pinched under the rim. This seems a very likely cause of the damage to the tyre.

Unfortunately I couldn't find or get any decent legal advice, though I did talk to and pay several solictors for their advice.
A bit late for your Brother, but this is very important to get - even if it means just doing a hell of a lot of research yourself.

Is he getting done for the Dangerous driving charge on the basis of the tyre? Not sure what 'Death by Dangerous Driving' covers.
Sadly the punishment can end up nasty for something like this, though it seems like you've got an ok case.
A bit late, again, but I'd be looking at finding a tyre expert that can at least say that the difference between his tyres and tyres that were in a just-legal state would have made very little difference to the likely outcome of the incident.

[plugger147]

Thanks for all your replies was a bit worse for wear last night and ranted on a bit.

G:That's quite harsh for a bald tyre and a larger fine than the guy who killed the 4 cyclist got too, its a completely inconsistent system and seems to be luck of the draw as to punishment.


A Juror phoned in sick today so no evidence was heard today and both tyre experts are coming in tomorrow now, although the judge and barristers have been debating how the death by dangerous driving charge is being presented. The sentence that keeps cropping up is that "if it is obvious to a competent and careful driver that the vehicle is dangerous then the charge must be causing dbdd." The judge has said that a careless driving or driving without due care wouldn't be able to be used as a lesser charge because it didn't fit the legal criteria.

They have said though that if the tyre's had been the 2 front's that were low the accident may not have happend.
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Tristan the wrote: just whipped off my trousers to find a big bruise on my arse, caused by matt rear ending me...

[stinkwheel]

[plugger147]

That's what we are hoping for too, I had the feeling earlier that the judge is unhappy with the whole case but that's probably just me being optimistic.
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Tristan the wrote: just whipped off my trousers to find a big bruise on my arse, caused by matt rear ending me...

[Kwaks]

You might be right Plugger, I was in front of a beak for Careless driving after an accident (blackice) pleading not guilty. The Judge dropped a few hints including questioning me giving evidence, before bolloking the Fiscal for bringing it to court in the first place
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Fallen Angel "Nae sniffing my seat now!!!!! "
www.cliqueycuntsmcc.co.uk
I AM NOT A FAST RIDER!!!!!!!!!

[plugger147]

Well after nothing happening yesterday because a juror needed the day off to go to her sons graduation, They forgot to mention it to the judge before she was sworn in.While we didn't attend the judge and barristers came to the agreement that they would offer the driving without due care as a lesser charge.

Summing up dragged on for ages then the jury went out and came back in within half hour. UNANIMOUS NOT GUILTY on all charges, after the farce that was the trial I was over the moon that 12 people with a bit of common sense sat on the jury and saw truth of the case.

Now for the next part, something needs to be done about that road firstly a call to the council on monday and see what they have to say on the matter then we'll go from there. We are determined that something will be done other than the useless matrix sign that they have put up since the accident.
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Tristan the wrote: just whipped off my trousers to find a big bruise on my arse, caused by matt rear ending me...

[iooi]

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