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The top 25 censored stories of 2008

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Ste
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PostPosted: 05:06 - 31 Jul 2008    Post subject: The top 25 censored stories of 2008 Reply with quote

The top censored news stories so far of the year. Major news that the Corporate Media refused to report. "They" do their best to keep us in the dark.

1 No Habeas Corpus for “Any Person” - The Military Commissions Act allows ANYONE REGARDLESS OF CITIZENSHIP (this includes American Citizens) to lose the right of habeus corpus and be renditioned to the alternative military tribunals instead of U.S. courts. You could sit in a "Gitmo" facility somewhere in the world for years before you were given a "military tribunal." All it takes is for Bush or Cheney to label you a "military combatant" and it's done. No "proof" is necessary. The law prohibits detainees once inside from appealing to the traditional American courts until after prosecution and sentencing. linky

2 Bush Moves Toward Martial Law - The John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007, allows President Bush to order the military (AND take command of state based National Guards without any recourse from the state authorities) and use them to "suppress public disorder." I bet the white segregationists are kicking themselves in the butt for not setting this mechanism up prior to the days of Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights Movement. This law repeals the Posse Comitatus Act which has enabled the United States to be the one country in the world who did not enact martial law when citizen unrest occurred. Instead of martial law, the "citizen unrest" resulted in major changes in civil rights for blacks in the U.S.A. Some, in our government would prefer to put a tank in Washington Square to chase any demonstrators away. Next stop, Communist China anyone? There was no major discussion in Congress concerning this lay and the media has remained quiet on the ramifications of this legislation on our democracy. linky

3 AFRICOM: US Military Control of Africa’s Resources - "In February 2007 the White House announced the formation of the US African Command (AFRICOM), a new unified Pentagon command center in Africa, to be established by September 2008. This military penetration of Africa is being presented as a humanitarian guard in the Global War on Terror. The real objective is, however, the procurement and control of Africa’s oil and its global delivery systems.
The most significant and growing challenge to US dominance in Africa is China. An increase in Chinese trade and investment in Africa threatens to substantially reduce US political and economic leverage in that resource-rich continent. The political implication of an economically emerging Africa in close alliance with China is resulting in a new cold war in which AFRICOM will be tasked with achieving full-spectrum military dominance over Africa. " linky

4 Frenzy of Increasingly Destructive Trade Agreements - “It is in nobody’s long-term interest to have a global economy that perpetuates social, economic, and environmental injustice.” (Oxfam) With the current frenzied debate over illegal immigration these Free Trade Agreements are a major source of creating poverty in Central and South America and FORCES people to try to find work in the USA in order to simply feed their families. And the people who have to work for a living, no matter the country, will learn the hard way that this is corporate written legislation that will lower the standard of living for workers everywhere. linky

5 Human Traffic Builds US Embassy in Iraq - Maybe this is the "real truth" behind what Bush and Cheney label US liberation and democracy in Iraq. linky

6 Operation FALCON Raids - "While mass militarized police roundups make little sense as a method of apprehending fugitives, the FALCON program does make sense as a means of effectively setting up a chain-of-command structure that radiates from the Justice Department and relocates the levers of control to Washington where they can be manned by members of the administration. Whitney warns that the plan behind the FALCON program appears to have been devised to enhance the powers of the “unitary” executive by putting state and local law enforcement under federal supervision, ready for the institution of martial law." linky

7 Behind Blackwater Inc. - Mercenaries--private contractors--are the second largest (and extremely expensive) force in Iraq. These contractors operate with little or no legal contraint, have no oversight, and their deaths are politically expedient because there are no death tolls kept for the mercenaries. Some see Blackwater as the Private Army of Bush and Cheney. Blackwater is now operating withing the United States and were used in Louisianna (many fresh from Iraq) after Katrina hit. linky

8 KIA: The US Neoliberal Invasion of India - Monsanto, Archer Daniels Midland, and Wal-Mart are the corporate forces behind the Indo-US Knowledge Initiative on Agriculture (KIA). "The KIA allows for the grab of India’s seed sector by Monsanto, of its trade sector by giant agribusiness ADM and Cargill, and its retail sector by Wal-Mart. " The details of this agreement are still "secret" even to India's senior politicians and their scientific community. Apparently Prime Minister Singh will sacrifice India’s agriculture sector to pay for concessions in the nuclear field by the U.S. In the meantime, at least 28,000 Indian farmers have committed suicide and folks are fighting to keep GM seed out of India, fearing the loss of their native plants. linky

9 Privatization of America’s Infrastructure - Looks like the USA wants to take us to "Midevil" times when folks did not have the right to travel freely. The new toll takers will be Wall street investors, Australian bankers, and Spanish contractors. One -three roadways in Virginia are already leased out for 100 years. Investment firms (such as Golman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, and the infamous Carlyle Group) are approaching state officials in order to pick up the infrastructure at the lowest price possible to maximize profits. These investors usually insist on "noncompete" clauses which prevent the state government from expanding or improving nearby roads. This is insane. If tolls are to be charged the profits should be taken by the state to build and maintain our roadways. not fatten some fat cat's pocket. linky

10 Vulture Funds Threaten Poor Nations’ Debt Relief - Vultures--distressed-debt investors--are paying pennies on the dollar to obtain the debts of third world countries and then demanding full payment from the impoverished country. For example, Zambia was negotiating with Poland to reduce their $40 million debt to $3 million. Instead a vulture swoops in (Donegal International) and pays Poland less than $4 million for Zambia's debt. Donegal is now insisting that Zambia pay them the entire $40 million. Zambia had hope to invest in nurses, teachers, and build some basic infrastructure in their country and they were close to finalizing the agreement with Poland. However investors in Donegal convinced Poland to sell them the debt. Donegal is suing Zambia for the entire $40 million. Zambia may be forced to sue their national resources to benefit the English Donegal investors and the Zambian people will continue to earn less than $1 per day. linky

15-25

11 The Scam of “Reconstruction” in Afghanistan linky
12 Another Massacre in Haiti by UN Troops linky
13 Immigrant Roundups to Gain Cheap Labor for US Corporate Giants linky
14 Impunity for US War Criminals linky
15 Toxic Exposure Can Be Transmitted to Future Generations on a “Second Genetic Code” linky
16 No Hard Evidence Connecting Bin Laden to 9/11 linky
17 Drinking Water Contaminated by Military and Corporations linky
18 Mexico’s Stolen Election linky
19 People’s Movement Challenges Neoliberal Agenda linky
20 Terror Act Against Animal Activists linky
21 US Seeks WTO Immunity for Illegal Farm Payments linky
22 North Invades Mexico linky
23 Feinstein’s Conflict of Interest in Iraq linky
24 Media Misquotes Threat From Iran’s President linky
25 Who Will Profit from Native Energy? linky



Lots of interesting reading. Neutral
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pa_broon74
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PostPosted: 09:22 - 31 Jul 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a program on the telly about story number 10. I think it was panorama...

They tried to interview the guy who owns Denegal Int, I have to say, in the grand scheme of things; the guy was a total fucking worm. The annoying thing was, as I recal he was totally with out remorse, he thought what he was doing was ok simply because he was operating within international law.

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damz
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PostPosted: 23:24 - 03 Aug 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

saw the bin laden thing on the news once, pretty huge fucking news but only shown once and never repeated, same with the voice in the video's being faked and the fact that he was suffering from organ failure in 2000 and was likely dead already.
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 09:36 - 04 Aug 2008    Post subject: Re: The top 25 censored stories of 2008 Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
The top censored news stories so far of the year. Major news that the Corporate Media refused to report. "They" do their best to keep us in the dark.

1 No Habeas Corpus for “Any Person” - The Military Commissions Act allows ANYONE REGARDLESS OF CITIZENSHIP (this includes American Citizens) to lose the right of habeus corpus and be renditioned to the alternative military tribunals instead of U.S. courts.


I don't know what you class as Corporate Media, but this story - and several variations thereof - has been in the mainstream UK media every week without fail for years.

Quote:

2 Bush Moves Toward Martial Law - The John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007, allows President Bush to order the military (AND take command of state based National Guards without any recourse from the state authorities) and use them to "suppress public disorder." I bet the white segregationists are kicking themselves in the butt for not setting this mechanism up prior to the days of Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights Movement. This law repeals the Posse Comitatus Act which has enabled the United States to be the one country in the world who did not enact martial law when citizen unrest occurred. Instead of martial law, the "citizen unrest" resulted in major changes in civil rights for blacks in the U.S.A.


As I recall, President Eisenhower deployed 11,000 troops from regular and NG units to PROTECT blacks from civil unrest in Little Rock, Arkansas.

Oh, and Italy has deployed troops on its streets this week - why didn't you mention that? OMFGZ YUO SI CENOSRIING TEH NEWS!!1

Quote:

3 AFRICOM: US Military Control of Africa’s Resources - "In February 2007 the White House announced the formation of the US African Command (AFRICOM), a new unified Pentagon command center in Africa, to be established by September 2008. This military penetration of Africa is being presented as a humanitarian guard in the Global War on Terror. The real objective is, however, the procurement and control of Africa’s oil and its global delivery systems.
The most significant and growing challenge to US dominance in Africa is China. An increase in Chinese trade and investment in Africa threatens to substantially reduce US political and economic leverage in that resource-rich continent. The political implication of an economically emerging Africa in close alliance with China is resulting in a new cold war in which AFRICOM will be tasked with achieving full-spectrum military dominance over Africa. " linky


How the fuck is that even news, let alone censored? Any idiot can see what is happening there, and every country in the world is trying to maintain its influence and interests in the teeth of heightened Chinese expansion. I fail to see what's so secret, censored or sinister about it. Another non-story dressed up to look like The World's Greatest Conspiracy.

The OP wrote:
lots of other cack.....


To be honest, this isn't a 'top 25 censored stories' list, it's a 'think of as many weird reasons as possible to complain about western governments, especially the US - oh, and it doesn't matter if they're made up' list.
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colin1
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PostPosted: 13:00 - 04 Aug 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

so what on that list do you think is made up ?

I think censoring isnt quite the right description. News stories have to be about recent events, easy to explain and be fully substantiated. A lot of the things in the list would be boring to many people, as its about underlying power balances, and subtle dodgy dealings.

In the interests of 'balance' and reporting of an event, has to be accompanied by an offical white wash. Or more usually, a compromise will be made between the official version, and the version that actually happened but cant be completely proved.

Its not that journalists are intentionally censoring the news.

The news is being managed so that censorship isnt necessary.

For example, In Iraq, an enitre city called Fallujah was laid waste in revenge for the killing of a handful of defence contractors.

We now know that defence contractors in Iraq were operating above the law and with complete disregard to Iraqi lives if they perceived a threat. Its entirely possible that the reason those handful of contractors were killed was for some act they had done.

We now know of an occasion when blackwater employees fired on civilians when they were not under attack, and were exempt from any legal consequences.

So an entire city was destroyed in response to the deaths of some trigger happy americans.

I'm not even sure if Nazi Occupying powers were quite that ruthless.

American lives are so precious, that many thousands must die if one is killed.

Of course this sort of thing just provokes more outrage amongst civilians and swells the insurgents ranks.

Conspiracy may not be the right word.

Its more case of pulling the veil of lies away from offical accounts of what is happening in the world.

Conspiracy sounds like a small clandestine operation by a few individuals.

This stuff is more about global dominance, involving leaders who are slyly increasing their power and influence by amazingly ruthless means. They cant be open about this as someone might object, and so have different justifications, cover stories and assorted lies to conceal and distract from what they are up to.

The kind of people who rise to the top, are people who will do whatever it takes to increase their power that they can get away with. They probably even believe that they are doing the right thing.

If america wants to invade a country no one is going to stop it. We forget that when Nazi Germany invaded countries, they often had a cover story or justification too.

Conspiracy suggests a possible hidden truth.

Actually the truth is a huge exposed thing that they are trying to cover with a smokescreen of bullshit. Most people just see the smokescreen, but the huge thing behind isnt that hard to see if you just look through the smoke. You might not be able to make out exactly what is going on behind the smokescreen but you can get the broad outline.

American politicians have much closer links to business than British ones, so they work in the interests of big business.
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pa_broon74
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PostPosted: 13:18 - 04 Aug 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

The vast majority of people are apathetic toward these kind of stories, it just doesn't affect them so they don't care. Put a penny on the price of petrol and they care because it makes them poorer.

All of those stories are shocking in varying degrees, but they don't directly affect Joe Shmoe in front of his telly, but wouldn't go out and buy a Guardian on the strength of any of the stories mentioned.

Call it auto-censoring.

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Mister James
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PostPosted: 16:01 - 04 Aug 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

colin1 wrote:
so what on that list do you think is made up ?


2 of the 3 I specifically addressed were non-events - things so obvious or so everyday as to not warrant mentioning, especially in the context of global conspiracy.

Quote:

For example, In Iraq, an enitre city called Fallujah was laid waste in revenge for the killing of a handful of defence contractors.


A perfect example of a re-imagining of a news item that is as skewed and one-sided as anything concocted by the 'Corporate Media'.

Quote:

We now know that defence contractors in Iraq were operating above the law and with complete disregard to Iraqi lives if they perceived a threat. Its entirely possible that the reason those handful of contractors were killed was for some act they had done.


Once again, Colin shows his awesome ability to put 2 and 2 together to obtain 137.

Some contractors have been found to be operating 'above the law' (how they can operate above a law that their detractors insist does not exist in Iraq, I'll never understand) and there are no doubt plenty more doing similar things that we have yet to discover. That does not justify the below:

Quote:
On March 31, 2004, Iraqi insurgents in Fallujah ambushed a convoy containing four American private military contractors from Blackwater USA, who were conducting delivery for food caterers ESS.[6]

The four armed contractors, Scott Helvenston, Jerry (Jerko) Zovko, Wesley Batalona, and Michael Teague, were dragged from their cars, beaten, and set on fire. Their burned corpses were then dragged through the streets before being hung over a bridge crossing the Euphrates.[7][8] This bridge is unofficially referred to as "Blackwater Bridge" by Coalition Forces operating there.[9][8]


They were in a food convoy - which suggests they weren't even based in the area, and were in any case unlikely to have been known to those attacking them - rendering your pitiful excuse of "They may have done something to deserve it" rather hollow.

Quote:

So an entire city was destroyed in response to the deaths of some trigger happy americans.

I'm not even sure if Nazi Occupying powers were quite that ruthless.


As the events you described didn't actually happen, I'm not even sure the comparison is relevant.

Civilians were evacuated from the city, a cordon was placed around it, and only then did coalition troops enter to clear it out. I believe the claimed tally of insurgents killed was around 1500,while the anti-war group Iraq Body Count put the civilian death toll at 600-800; the Iraqi government choosing to believe a figure 1/3rd of that.

There was extensive damage caused to property during the operation, which is why the city was evacuated in the first place. Coallition troops reported finding substantial weapons stocks in half of the cities mosques - so the insurgents/terrorists/brave freedom fighters made no efforts themselves to lead US troops away from valued buildings.

Quote:

American lives are so precious, that many thousands must die if one is killed.


What pathetic attempt to stir the shit.

Arrow Of course American lives are more precious to Americans than those of other countries - that's pretty much a constant throughout the world, regardless of whether people have the honesty to admit it or not.

Arrow America was prosecuting a war in the region, it was either clear the area of insurgents or give up and go home.

Arrow You're putting your own inaccurate spin on things as much as any evil media controller ever has.


Quote:

Its more case of pulling the veil of lies away from offical accounts of what is happening in the world.


Or indeed, the veil of lies away from your own weird accounts of what is happening.

Quote:

American politicians have much closer links to business than American ones, so they work in the interests of big business.


?
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colin1
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PostPosted: 16:09 - 04 Aug 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mister James wrote:

Civilians were evacuated from the city, a cordon was placed around it, and only then did coalition troops enter to clear it out. I believe the claimed tally of insurgents killed was around 1500,while the anti-war group Iraq Body Count put the civilian death toll at 600-800; the Iraqi government choosing to believe a figure 1/3rd of that.



The Iraqi Body Count group only count deaths that they can verify. The actual death toll is likely to be far higher. As it wont be possible to verify all deaths.

The Iraqi government would choose to estimate down from that figure as they rely on America for security and wouldnt want to cause trouble.

The fact remains that America invaded another country and many people died as a result.

Laying waste to an entire city after the killings of a handful of contractors, whether they are chefs or mercenaries, is excessive and only going to inflame things.
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colin1
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PostPosted: 16:12 - 04 Aug 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mister James wrote:
colin1 wrote:
so what on that list do you think is made up ?


2 of the 3 I specifically addressed were non-events - things so obvious or so everyday as to not warrant mentioning, especially in the context of global conspiracy.



so do you think any of the events on the list were made up, as you said earlier ?

if so, which ones ?
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 16:32 - 04 Aug 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mister James wrote:

Or indeed, the veil of lies away from your own weird accounts of what is happening.


And it 20 years time we'll be complaining about what the Chinese do... though we'll probably be on the receiving end , EDF effectively the French government is currently raping us on energy prices and they are supposed to be an allied friendly country.
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 16:36 - 04 Aug 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

colin1 wrote:

Laying waste to an entire city after the killings of a handful of contractors, whether they are chefs or mercenaries, is excessive and only going to inflame things.


Lucky it didn't happen like that then, eh?

Quote:
The Iraqi Body Count group only count deaths that they can verify. The actual death toll is likely to be far higher. As it wont be possible to verify all deaths.


Seems to tally up with estimates made by civilians on the ground and working in hospitals there, eh?

Do you deny that the Americans evacuated the city and made huge efforts to minimise civilian casualties?

Quote:
The fact remains that America invaded another country and many people died as a result.


That fact was never questioned. Neither was it relevant to my comments above - why try and change the subject?

Quote:
so do you think any of the events on the list were made up, as you said earlier ?


I grow tired of repeating myself.

I've already torn to shreds the credibility of this 'list' by addressing only the first 3 items on it - I'm not wasting valuable time going through it piece by piece. On the basis of the ones I've looked at so far, I believe it's likely that every single 'story' on this list is either exaggerated, made up, fictional, skewed, biased, or containing elements of all or some of the preceding.

You've already shown your own bias by repeating your own misleading description of operations in Fallujah despite being challenged on the matter.

This list is pure shit, generated in order to make Anti-USG types feel justified in holding the views they do. "Oh hey, aren't we clever for seeing through the EVIL CORPORATE MEDIA'S LIES, unlike all those other sheep!".

Wankers.

Lies, bullshit and self-congratulatory exaggeration, what a heady mix.
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 16:40 - 04 Aug 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:

And it 20 years time we'll be complaining about what the Chinese do... though we'll probably be on the receiving end ,


Something that I've pointed out several times in the past. It's typical that people like Colin prefer to concentrate on the 'censored' story of America's armed forces forming a command unit (since when was that unusual?) for Africa, while China supports Mugabe's government and the genocide in Dharfur.

I must've missed all the threads Colin and Ste have started on those travesties of international relations.

Quote:

EDF effectively the French government is currently raping us on energy prices and they are supposed to be an allied friendly country.


Yep - again, this only highlights the hypocrisy and double-standards represented in the current global craze for American-bashing; all the other countries/groups/races/whatever are doing exactly the same thing - perhaps that's the REAL media censorship.
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igiyf
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PostPosted: 16:42 - 04 Aug 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

mister james have you even watched any videos relating to global conspiracy?im curious
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Paivi
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PostPosted: 16:51 - 04 Aug 2008    Post subject: Re: The top 25 censored stories of 2008 Reply with quote

Mister James wrote:
I don't know what you class as Corporate Media, but this story - and several variations thereof - has been in the mainstream UK media every week without fail for years.

US media, I guess, them being (a) US stories and (b) widely reported in the UK and the rest of Europe.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 16:54 - 04 Aug 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mister James wrote:
double-standards represented in the current global craze for American-bashing;


double standards? ,

how gauche and 1990s ,

I thought we were on triple or quadruple standards already... Rolling Eyes
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colin1
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PostPosted: 16:57 - 04 Aug 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mister James wrote:

Do you deny that the Americans evacuated the city and made huge efforts to minimise civilian casualties?


I dont deny that they told civilians to leave the city, but then did not let all civilians leave. Forces going into the city were then told that as all civilians had left, anything that moved was a valid target.

Typical American logic.

Their priority was to minimise american casualties, minimising civilian casualties was not of such high priority.

Use of area effect weapons, incendiaries, and chemical weapons on a populated area, on the basis that anyone should have left the area because they were told to.

Iraq had been invaded, and its army defeated. Fighting insurgents with the same level of force that you use to fight an army, just creates more insurgents.

The British Army in Northern Ireland may have been a bit heavy handed at times, but they wouldnt have torched a town because a few squaddies had got shot somewhere nearby.

You may not agree with the slant of the stories, but many of the facts that they are looking at, you wouldnt really dispute, such as the large number of military contractors at large in Iraq who are exempt from the rule of law, and who's death counts arent included in american losses as they arent official armed forces.

You havent torn anything to shreds. You have merely said you dont agree with the statements made.
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 17:02 - 04 Aug 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

mad_man wrote:
mister james have you even watched any videos relating to global conspiracy?im curious


Not that I can remember.

Usually a couple of clicks through the website of the group/person/raving lunatic peddling the said video is enough to discredit it.

In the same way that Evil Corporations (tm) can twist an argument or a story to suit them, so too can their sworn opponents the Conspiracy Nuts. I'll form my own opinions about events, people and countries based on news garnered from several rival sources - I won't rely on videos made by people with an axe to grind, making assertions that can't be proven.
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colin1
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PostPosted: 17:11 - 04 Aug 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mister James wrote:


Something that I've pointed out several times in the past. It's typical that people like Colin prefer to concentrate on the 'censored' story of America's armed forces forming a command unit (since when was that unusual?) for Africa, while China supports Mugabe's government and the genocide in Dharfur.


I dont know anything about China supporting Mugabe, but I cant think of any reason why it might not be true.

China is far more ruthless with its own people let alone foreigners, than america.

While Germany, Russia and China killed millions of its citizens in the cause of state security or whatever, America kills citizens in other countries by proxy wars such as in South America, or by actively invading like in Iraq.

China also uses smokescreens. The smog in Beijing that they claim is natural humidity. What they dont mention is that the humidity is only visible because it condenses on the very high level of particulates in the air.

If we lived in China, we would be expected to believe their bullshit, and I could be put in prison for speculating to the contrary.

A chinese person who posted pictures of the schools that collapsed in the earthquake was sent to prison as they didnt want people to be looking at these embarassing pictures.

In Britain and America, the ruling elites are so secure, that it doesn't really matter what citizens think, as there will be no riots, civil unrest etc.

In the same way that chinese people are fed lies by the government, we are also fed lies.

The difference is, we can discuss whether or not they are lies. Its not that our government lies any less than china.
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 17:13 - 04 Aug 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

colin1 wrote:
Mister James wrote:

Do you deny that the Americans evacuated the city and made huge efforts to minimise civilian casualties?


I dont deny that they told civilians to leave the city, but then did not let all civilians leave. Forces going into the city were then told that as all civilians had left, anything that moved was a valid target.


Sources for not letting civilians leave?

Quote:

Typical American logic.


Typical Colin prejudice.

Quote:

Their priority was to minimise american casualties, minimising civilian casualties was not of such high priority.


If they wanted to minimise American casualities they would've carpet bombed the place from 20,000 feet. 95 US marines died in the city, hardly minimal by any means.

Quote:

Use of area effect weapons, incendiaries, and chemical weapons on a populated area, on the basis that anyone should have left the area because they were told to.


All explosives are area-effect weapons, just as they are all chemical weapons. You use terms and phrases you don't understand to make your argument sound even worse for the yanks.

I assume the stories you're mindlessly quoting refer to white phosphorous? The Americans used grenades containing this in Fallujah, and the left-wing media jumped all over it as an example of their brutality. I fail to see how it matters whether the grenade killing you did so with concussion and shrapnel, or with an incendiary effect. You are still dead. It's yet another example of people twisting the facts to suit themselves.

Quote:

Iraq had been invaded, and its army defeated. Fighting insurgents with the same level of force that you use to fight an army, just creates more insurgents.


They killed 1350 or so - that's a couple of regiments - explain to me how that isn't an army?

Quote:

You may not agree with the slant of the stories, but many of the facts that they are looking at, you wouldnt really dispute, such as the large number of military contractors at large in Iraq who are exempt from the rule of law, and who's death counts arent included in american losses as they arent official armed forces.


But that isn't a story - we already know that! It isn't hidden, it isn't being censored, it's been widely available since the war began - and if it wasn't, it would take you all of 3 seconds to work it out for yourself anyway!

The 'story' is being presented as part of a global conspiracy of silence and censorship, when it is nothing of the sort!

As for military contractors being exempt from the rule of law - there have certainly been examples where they have acted that way, however the detractors of Bush and the contractors are constantly whining that there is no law in Iraq - so which law should they be following?

Quote:

You havent torn anything to shreds. You have merely said you dont agree with the statements made.


I showed that the top 3 stories on this list were nothing like what they were presented to be - rendering the list totally defunct and irrelevant. How much more torn to shreds do you need?
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Mister James
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Joined: 10 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: 17:17 - 04 Aug 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

colin1 wrote:
Mister James wrote:


Something that I've pointed out several times in the past. It's typical that people like Colin prefer to concentrate on the 'censored' story of America's armed forces forming a command unit (since when was that unusual?) for Africa, while China supports Mugabe's government and the genocide in Dharfur.


I dont know anything about China supporting Mugabe, but I cant think of any reason why it might not be true.

China is far more ruthless with its own people let alone foreigners, than america.



So why are all the threads only discussing America's crimes, and implying that everyone else is angelic - or worse, not worth mentioning?
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igiyf
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PostPosted: 17:43 - 04 Aug 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

i understand what you are saying james, what about assertions that can be proven?i mean things that cant lie..self evident truth...if i were to present some to you..would you turn a blind eye to that?


Mister James wrote:
mad_man wrote:
mister james have you even watched any videos relating to global conspiracy?im curious


Not that I can remember.

Usually a couple of clicks through the website of the group/person/raving lunatic peddling the said video is enough to discredit it.

In the same way that Evil Corporations (tm) can twist an argument or a story to suit them, so too can their sworn opponents the Conspiracy Nuts. I'll form my own opinions about events, people and countries based on news garnered from several rival sources - I won't rely on videos made by people with an axe to grind, making assertions that can't be proven.
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colin1
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PostPosted: 18:11 - 04 Aug 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mister James wrote:


So why are all the threads only discussing America's crimes, and implying that everyone else is angelic - or worse, not worth mentioning?


Threads may discuss america, but that does not imply everyone else is angelic.

As mentioned, American and British citizens are allowed to dissent, so there are more people taking an interest in American and British. We have more access to information about American crimes.

The only reason we hear about Tibet is that its of strategic interest to the west.

Im sure that in China far worse happens than the bit of rioting that happened in Tibet.

China could be doing all sorts of unspeakable things, but their soldiers dont tend to post vids on youtube.

Also, with china you arent really going to have much discussion in england on the rights and wrongs. No one is going to say that China should have invaded Tibet, the way that people in england will argue that Britain did a good thing invading England.

So any discussion would be limited to stuff like whether the Chinese authorities deliberately were slow to respond to tibetan rioters attacking han chinese shops, so they could be more heavy handed later, or if they just thought it would fizzle out.
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PostPosted: 20:28 - 04 Aug 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mister James wrote:

So why are all the threads only discussing America's crimes, and implying that everyone else is angelic - or worse, not worth mentioning?


I thought we (and the US) were the shining example of freedom and democracy and all muslims hate us because we are free?

Isn't that the illusion we've been sold for years?

Therefore, our crimes against liberty should be highlighted in the universal equivalent of yellow highlighters...
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colin1
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PostPosted: 22:24 - 04 Aug 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kris wrote:


I thought we (and the US) were the shining example of freedom and democracy and all muslims hate us because we are free?



I think if some muslims were to hate us, its because we are free to kill muslims, profit from their wealth, and support oppressive regimes.

It now looks like supporting oppressive regimes was a lot better than ripping them apart and trying to install nice regimes where there is no stability.

People arent so bothered about the right to vote if they have reason to be concerned that they may be killed.

"When the Americans started this whole war issue," said one, who will be referred to as person No. 1, "we started to see the light at the end of the tunnel, and we walked toward it. But when the war happened, that light was the American train coming the other way that ran us over."
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bazza
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PostPosted: 05:38 - 05 Aug 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

colin1 wrote:
I think if some muslims were to hate us, its because we are free to kill muslims, profit from their wealth, and support oppressive regimes.

It now looks like supporting oppressive regimes was a lot better than ripping them apart and trying to install nice regimes where there is no stability.

People arent so bothered about the right to vote if they have reason to be concerned that they may be killed.



Typical limp lettuce rhetoric from col. I swear you'd enjoy being taken hostage and beheaded on youtube just to prove how evil GWB is, and how terrorism is All Our Fault(tm).
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The last post was made 17 years, 180 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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