NIP Help

[KLR600]

This post is probably going to be quite long so I do apologise beforehand for waffling but I haven't had anything like this before and I'm pretty good at saying the wrong thing to people in authority which usually lands me deeper in the poo so I just want to make sure I say everything I can to make everything as clear as possible. For those of you who don't want to read the whole thing, skip to the bottom now and read what it says in red.

Right...

On Monday this week I got a card through the door from Royal Mail informing me someone had sent me a letter second class without a stamp on it and that I had to go to the sorting office (10 mile trip each way) to pick it up and pay £1.27 for my troubles. Not to worry I think as It's probably just some junk mail being sent second class, no rush. Anyway, my G/F has this week off work and was heading out to town today so she kindly picked up the letter for me and left it for me for when I got back from work. Fast forward to 8pm tonight when I roll up the drive and find this ominous looking letter waiting for me. I opened it up to find I have been served with a Notice of Intended Prosectution from North Wales police. Bugger I think, where was I caught speeding? So I read on on the first page to find that the alleged offences are actually:

Alleged careless driving contrary to section 3 of the road traffic act 1988.

And,

Alleged dangerous driving contrary to section 2 of the road traffic act 1988.


It also states a time, date and place of the alleged offence.

So this leaves me a bit confused as to why I have been sent a NIP because surely they'd of asked me to go for an interview or something to get my side of the story otherwise I bet they'd be sending NIP's out to every man and his dog about every single road incident ever. Surely you can't just ring the cops up and say:

"This reg plate just did something to my car"

"Right-o Sir, we'll prosecute immediately"

Anyway I digress. I got 3 forms in the envelope. The first one quoted the 2 alleged offences above but the second one with the bit at the bottom I'm supposed to sign and return only states:

Alleged careless driving contrary to section 3 of the road traffic act 1988.

So what's the other bit about alleged dangerous driving doing on the other sheet? If I sign and return this form is that an admission of guilt? None of the forms I got state any fines or penalties I may be liable to get/pay, what can I expect? I think it's odd how they've just quoted some really vauge traffic violations in the NIP and not specified any details so I could be charged with anything really.

Anyhoo, this leads me onto to...

The NIP states that the alleged offence took place at 12 midday. I can prove that I was at work at 12 midday on the day as that is what time my time sheet in work says I signed in there which has been signed by a duty manager. Is this of any relevance? My time sheet has spaces to basically just write in what time you come and go and then a manager signs it at the end of the day so by putting me at work at 12 midday that means I would of been at least a 10 minute ride away from where they reckon the alleged offence took place.

One of the forms has a phone number I can ring and a reference number. If I ring this will they be able to give me specifics? I'm really anxious about ringing it though as this is where I'll probably say something I shouldn't as I'm crap under pressure and I'm the kind of person who'd end up admitting to every unsolved murder if some meanie cop was interviewing me. I was thinking of ringing up and saying something along the lines of...

"Hi, I just got this NIP in the post, can you tell me what it's all about and whats going to happen?"

But then knowing my luck they'll ask me some questions and I'll end up saying something I shouldn't do.

This whole thing has me totally rattled to be honest. As if getting a NIP isn't bad enough, being made to do a 20 mile round trip and then have to pay £1.27 to receive it in the first place just takes the biscuit. If I'd of gone with my inital feeling and just written the letter off as junk then who knows what could of happened, I probably would just gotten a court summons out of the blue or something over a wing mirror.

So basically my questions are:

If the NIP doesn't state any fines or penalties for any of the alleged offences, would I get anything?

Based on what I've said above (being able to prove I was in work, NIP being sent without a stamp etc) is there any way I can get out of it?

Am I going to lose my licence?

Why state alleged dangerous driving on one part of the form but not the other?

If I sign and return the form will that be an admission of guilt?

Am I going to court?


I got a NIP in the post. What do I do?


Sorry for waffling, any help or any light shed on anything in this post is muchly and greatly appreciated
____________________
Now: '00 Kawasaki ZRX1100R - Past: '84 Yamaha DT125, '89 Kawasaki KLR600, '97 Yamaha XJ600N
<My Bikepics Page> <My Yootoobes> <My Websites> <My Photos>
<Take Cool Photos!>

[D O G]

1. I would edit the above post appropriately. You say too much.

2. Put the edited post on www.pepipoo.com - they're should be some legal eagles on there to help you.

3. If nothing comes from pepipoo, get on to a solicitor, seems a bit more complex than usual type incidents.

[Catalyst]

I clipped a wing mirror on the sahf east ride out on sunday, now you've got me all shitted up!

Remember your innocent until proven guilty (According to the law) so they can't do you for anything unless they have proof.
____________________
|--Previous--|:2007 Aprilia SX50...--Current--|: 2007 Kawasaki ER-6N
SlimRick - I can cook really well - but it's a useless skill, as I'm not a woman and it's their fucking job!

[KLR600]

[Ste]

Edits....

- Everything at this stage is just allegedly, rephrase accordingly.

- Drop everything to do with what you're saying about where you might have been at midday. That could be perverting the course of justice or some shit like that which would take it from bad to worse.You don't want it to end up like this guy.

- Do not call them up to discuss anything, any communications should be done in writing, much less opportunity to put your foot in it and they can't try to verbally trip you up.

- I believe signing and returning the form is basically an admission of guilt which is exactly what they're wanting you to do, don't do anything yet. Run it by Pepipoo and see what they say there.

Basically ask on Pepipoo and be very careful with what you say or post anywhere.

[Kwaks]

Reading this I though I would summarise:

1. Got a NIP through post and have no idea what it is for.

2. Checking my records, it seems I was at work at the time of an alledged offence.

End of.
____________________
Fallen Angel "Nae sniffing my seat now!!!!! "
www.cliqueycuntsmcc.co.uk
I AM NOT A FAST RIDER!!!!!!!!!

[KLR600]

[Kwaks]

You are innocent, they have to prove guilt.

You cannot recall any incident, however by your own records you were not riding at the time the "alledged incident" occured, which is co-oberated by the tax man

You need say nothing which may harm your defence. You have an alibi for the time of the offence. Won't even get by the PF(or english equivalent) IMO.

Only problem is if they have you on tape, in which case a copy must be supplied to you on request.
____________________
Fallen Angel "Nae sniffing my seat now!!!!! "
www.cliqueycuntsmcc.co.uk
I AM NOT A FAST RIDER!!!!!!!!!

[KLR600]

[Kwaks]

In Scotland the PF is the Procurator Fiscal, all charges are passed to them and they determine whether to proceed. In England it will be some other name ( Crown Prosecution Service?).

Cops send these things out hoping you can't be bothered fighting and will cop a guilty, saves them doing their job of investigating and proving.

How would someone sitting in a line of cars be able to read your plate as you filter past on their passenger side? Reasonable doubt right there.

I would clarify exactly what the offence is, you will then be in a better position to defend against it. (you don't even know if it relates to this mirror.)
____________________
Fallen Angel "Nae sniffing my seat now!!!!! "
www.cliqueycuntsmcc.co.uk
I AM NOT A FAST RIDER!!!!!!!!!

[KLR600]

[Grav]

Don't mess about with Pepipoo or owt like that, seek advice from a Solicitor ASAP.
____________________
Dark Lord Of Custard

snigger.....

[KLR600]

[Ste]

Whatever you do, I reckon piecing together your defence in a public place (this forum, pepipoo, or where ever else) is a bad idea. If you were at work at the time of the offence, like you say your time sheets prove you were, it sounds like your bike might have been cloned?

I'd have thought the car involved would have witnesses and they'll have a vague description of what the bike and rider involved looked like, if it were me then I'd be swapping lids with a mate for a while, swapping jackets with someone else for a while, maybe changing a few parts on the bike just to avoid any possible coincidences where your kit happens to be similar to that of the person who cloned your bike.

Deal with solicitors, there aren't any free ones, they've give you half an hour of their time but I believe that's more for them to see if your case is something they'd want to take on and for you to see if you'd like to be represented by them. Of course you could just go for the free consultations to see if you want to be represented by them when in actual fact you've got no intention of doing so and you're just wanting to see what they say. You want to discuss the case with them, see what they think about it, and you'll get back to them once you've spoken with a couple of other solicitors.

My understanding (which isn't based on anything other than what I've read) is that you give your solicitor your version of events and they'll form a defence based on that, they won't come up with the best version of events for you. But presumably that'd vary from solicitor to solicitor, and it'd be in their interest to be giving a version of events that was plausible so that'd be something which could be discussed in the free consultations.

I'd say do some finding out about what should be said in letters to enquiring about what the offences are, you don't want to unknowingly shoot yourself in the foot.

[Kwaks]

If this is just about someones wing mirror being knocked back then the police & courts Will really not be bothered by it. Not really in the public interest to pursue due to court time/costs etc.

Whatever you do don't worry about it, if all you are gonna do is worry you would be as well taking the fixed penaly (which will be the next letter they send you ). Me? I would tell them not guilty. Keep your timesheet for court, and let them lay out there case. If going to court they will have to give more details on the charges.

Soliciter would be good, however don't jump the gun, they have only served you with a Notice of impending prosecution, they have not started the proceedings, and may not do so.
____________________
Fallen Angel "Nae sniffing my seat now!!!!! "
www.cliqueycuntsmcc.co.uk
I AM NOT A FAST RIDER!!!!!!!!!

[Blau Zedong]

If it's an allegation of Dangerous driving you should be elligeable for legal aid as it can carry a custodial sentence (I'm not saying for a minute it will, but bare that in mind). It's also an either / or offence so you can be tried in Crown court if you push for it. You really must get the help of a solicitor in this.
____________________
18:54:48 Rob Fzs: jews don't give away stuff for free

18:54:59 Rob Fzs: unless its their clothes/ hair/ golden teeth

[Finglonga]

[KLR600]

Again, thanks for all your help

Is there any possibility that a no win no fee solicitor would take this up? I think that's the only way I could afford one to be honest.

I have no idea what to do next really as I can't afford a solicitor but I don't particularly want to sign and return this section 172 untill I know what's going on but I don't want to leave that too long either

[Old man]

Are you actually sure these are genuine and not just a wind up.
If you were to be prosecuted for offences that are not standard ticket/fine/points ie speeding you would have had a visit bt some police officers.
I dont think that the police put stamps on there envelopes, they will be pre-paid.
Just go in to the local police station and ask what the hell these are about and if necessary get a letter from your place of empolyment and if possible a copy of your time card to prove it could not have been you.
You cannot be prosecuted on the 'hear say' of another motorist if you did not cause damage, the very worst that could happen would be a warning.
____________________
Breaking Suzuki Bandit 400 https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=152585
Yamaha XT125X Supermoto for sale https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=152588

[KLR600]

[Bofh5]

Hi
Be really careful with how you proceed.
I included what happened to me so you can see what happens if it all goes pear shaped.

Remember a NIP is a Notice of intent to Prosecute not a summons.
The only thing you can do is write to them requesting more information about the offence.
Don't give anything away !
Just state that you have recieved a Notice of Intent to Prosecute for the alleged offence(s) which you feel has been issued in error.
Request all the evidence that was used to issue the NIP. Photos, log books the works.
Remember you have the right to this information as they are accusing you of breaking the law.
I remember several cases years back when i was a member of another forum who had requested everything they could, didn't recieve sod all then got a summons.
The solicitor representing them used this and the cases were dismissed.
Once you have done this sit back and wait. The balls in their court.


In my case 4 or 5 years ago i dragged it out through the courts for over a year.
I requested everything i could and fought it tooth and nail.
My day in court though it all came to nought
3 Magistrates (2 of which dozed off) listened to the CPS case first then i presented my defence.
The magistrates buggered off for tea and a snooze then came back and said that they couldn't see anything wrong with the laser device used and so i got shafted !
I hadn't even argued about the device itself but the way it was being used and that both police statements had location errors and the equipment was being used contrary to ACPO guidelines etc.
Add to this the stopping distance at the alledged speed would have left 2 blacks stripes and flat copper in the road.
____________________
(L)users...Disk space is to good for them.

Bikes: Honda 50 / CB125-TDC / 93 CBR600 F2 (Stolen & Trashed) / 2001 SP-1 (Sold) / 95 CBR600 F3

[KLR600]

Who do I write the letter to requesting the evidence, the address on the NIP? Should I send it recorded delivery and should I quote the NIP reference number in the letter?

I'd really like to know what evidence they do have though but I really don't want to go to court or anything like that
____________________
Now: '00 Kawasaki ZRX1100R - Past: '84 Yamaha DT125, '89 Kawasaki KLR600, '97 Yamaha XJ600N
<My Bikepics Page> <My Yootoobes> <My Websites> <My Photos>
<Take Cool Photos!>

[Bofh5]

Send the letter quoting the NIP reference to the address they provided.
Recorded delivery is a must when dealing with these people as all to often they claim not to have recieved anything !
Keep copies of everything you send and recieve and the dates.
Good luck
____________________
(L)users...Disk space is to good for them.

Bikes: Honda 50 / CB125-TDC / 93 CBR600 F2 (Stolen & Trashed) / 2001 SP-1 (Sold) / 95 CBR600 F3