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Rear Observation and lifesavers

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Wise1
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PostPosted: 19:56 - 29 Sep 2008    Post subject: Rear Observation and lifesavers Reply with quote

I thought I would post this as there seems to be a few threads about lifesavers.

Personally I think there is an over use of lifesavers being taught in some schools, Rear observation is not to be confused with lifesavers, they are different. At the end of the day the more time spent looking behind you is less time spent concentrating on whats ahead of you.

As per the DSA :

Rear Observation refers to a combination of mirror checks and looking behind which ensures your always fully aware of whats happening behind you.

Before you signal, change direction or change speed you must know how your actions will affect the traffic behind you. You also have to know when traffic is likely to over take or come alongside you.

Looking behind is important because not all motorcycles are fitted with mirrors, and mirrors dont always give a clear view behind, leaving significant blind spots. There will be times when you need to look around to see the full picture.

Looking behind also warns other drivers that you may be about to signal or alter course.

When to look behind

Use judgement in deciding when to look behind. Obviously when your looking behind your not looking ahead. This could be hazardous, if, fro example, your close to the vehicle in front or if your overtaking at speed. Equally there are situations when it is dangerous not to look behind, such as a right turn into a minor road.

Take rear observation when your about to change position or speed as you approach and negotiate a hazard. This might be before:

Moving off
Turning left or right
Overtaking
Changing Lanes
Slowing or Stopping

Looking over your shoulder to often or at the wrong moment can be hazardous and lead to a test fail, in the time you take to look behind, you can:

Loose touch with whats going on in front
Run the risk of veering off course

At high speed or in congested moving traffic your attention needs to be focussed ahead. In these situations time your rearward checks carefully.

Combine regular and sensible use of mirrors with the lifesaver check into the blind area before altering course.

The "lifesaver" check is a last check over the shoulder into the blind spot to make sure nothing unexpected is happening before committing yourself to a manoeuvre.

If your turning, use it to check the blind spot on the side you intend to turn. Use your judgement about when to use it. In congested urban situations a lifesaver is normally essential, especially when turning right into a minor road, but during high speed overtaking, when your certain whats happening behind you, its often safer yo keep your eyes on whats happening ahead.

The blind area

The blind area is the area behind and to either side of you which is not covered by mirrors, its very important to check for traffic in this area before:

Moving off
Changing direction
Changing lane
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Current - 2007 Suzuki Bandit GSF1250 - 1999 Suzuki TL1000R
Previous - GSXR750 SRAD, Fireblade, ZXR750, CBR600


Last edited by Wise1 on 20:22 - 29 Sep 2008; edited 1 time in total
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Kal
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PostPosted: 20:11 - 29 Sep 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good post. Thumbs Up

Should be part of a sticky along with tips on how to perform a U turn and emergency stop.
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yandy_yay
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PostPosted: 20:19 - 29 Sep 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal wrote:
Good post. Thumbs Up

Should be part of a sticky along with tips on how to perform a U turn and emergency stop.


+1 Thumbs Up
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Wise1
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PostPosted: 21:30 - 29 Sep 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might add some things for the U turn and E stop as well Thumbs Up
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neil.
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PostPosted: 21:34 - 29 Sep 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or we could make it into a 'How to pass your test' superpost? Amalgamating hints and tips from everyone about each aspect of the test?
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Kal
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PostPosted: 22:42 - 29 Sep 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stickied and locked so relvent information dosn't get drowned out in the noise to signal ratio.
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Kal...
I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It Ya Like To (HOON IT!).

1984 GB250 Clubman,1983 CB250N Superdream, 1999 GPZ500S
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ajacko
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PostPosted: 12:22 - 30 Sep 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought that once my test had been passed all my obs and lifesavers would go the way of the Dodo. Fortunately that hasn't happened and I still perform them, as a matter of habit now.

The right shoulder lifesaver when pulling right out of a 'T' junction onto a major road was destined to be the first casualty of my laziness, but i've got that efficient at performing it without losing sight of any traffic that ends up in front of me once i'm out that I still do it, along with almost all of the other obs too. However, the right shoulder check while pulling away to continue straight ahead at traffic lights does get missed, i know what's behind me when i'm stopped so as long as i can still see it in the mirror as I pull away it hasn't moved and nothing's changed. Every other observation still gets my attention and I must admit I am surprised.
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Wise1
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PostPosted: 22:12 - 04 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

My view on the "expected" number of lifesavers and rearward observations has never changed, too many required!

I dont do the shoulder check when going ahead, I use the mirrors more. But yes certain ones I will always use such as using a left coming on, another going round a roundabout.

Once your get a bit of experience you know who is where and what to watch out for.
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loply
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PostPosted: 11:53 - 06 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my oppinion many of the checks are pointless or only for freak-incidents and not worth bothering, e.g.:

Left hand lifesaver on exiting a single lane roundabout, for all those times a pedal bike is overtaking you on the outside of a roundabout? Only relevant in a small number of cases e.g. big traffic light roundabouts.

Right hand lifesaver as you turn right a T-Junction. Fair enough if you stalled and spent an hour faffing with your gears, otherwise nobody in their right mind will be overtaking you on the wrong side of the road at a T-Junction.

Left-hand lifesaver as you turn left at a T-Junction, again, for all those times a suicidal superfast pedal bike wants to overtake an indicating motorbike at a junction? Right...
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Kal
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PostPosted: 12:10 - 06 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

loply wrote:
Left hand lifesaver on exiting a single lane roundabout, for all those times a pedal bike is overtaking you on the outside of a roundabout? Only relevant in a small number of cases e.g. big traffic light roundabouts.


Banzai pedriders. I've had this happen.

loply wrote:
Right hand lifesaver as you turn right a T-Junction. Fair enough if you stalled and spent an hour faffing with your gears, otherwise nobody in their right mind will be overtaking you on the wrong side of the road at a T-Junction.


Not more than a month ago we had someone knocked off on this fourm because they were overtaking someone on a junction.

loply wrote:
Left-hand lifesaver as you turn left at a T-Junction, again, for all those times a suicidal superfast pedal bike wants to overtake an indicating motorbike at a junction? Right...


Again, banzai pedriders.
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Kal...
I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It Ya Like To (HOON IT!).

1984 GB250 Clubman,1983 CB250N Superdream, 1999 GPZ500S
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iooi
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PostPosted: 17:29 - 06 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

loply wrote:
In my oppinion many of the checks are pointless or only for freak-incidents and not worth bothering, e.g.:


Will you still be saying that, when they are loading you into the back of the ambulance..........

You only need one freak incident to kill or injure you. Sick

So what is lost by looking, that may save you life. Thumbs Up
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ajacko
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PostPosted: 17:39 - 06 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

loply wrote:
In my oppinion many of the checks are pointless or only for freak-incidents and not worth bothering, e.g.:

Left hand lifesaver on exiting a single lane roundabout, for all those times a pedal bike is overtaking you on the outside of a roundabout? Only relevant in a small number of cases e.g. big traffic light roundabouts.

Right hand lifesaver as you turn right a T-Junction. Fair enough if you stalled and spent an hour faffing with your gears, otherwise nobody in their right mind will be overtaking you on the wrong side of the road at a T-Junction.

Left-hand lifesaver as you turn left at a T-Junction, again, for all those times a suicidal superfast pedal bike wants to overtake an indicating motorbike at a junction? Right...


Would you bet your life on it? I wouldn't bet my life on anything, no matter how unlikely.
____________________
Current bike:- Suzuki GS500 '02 plate. Next bike CBR600F or GSX650F. I'll leave the race reps to the kids.
www.xembly.com
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Wise1
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PostPosted: 19:22 - 06 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

nobody in their right mind will be overtaking you on the wrong side of the road at a T-Junction


Seen it happen twice.

Day dreamers in cars see a bike, its not the same size as a car and for some reason think there is enough space to move up beside them.
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Bikecrazy
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Joined: 18 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: 13:02 - 18 Oct 2008    Post subject: Re: Rear Observation and lifesavers Reply with quote

Thanks for that Lee going to do DAS tomorrow hoping to pass to take wife out on it she is scared on bikes so hope this will show her how bikes are when they out on road.

Did u pass your DAS test by the way joined today so didnt know

wisenerl wrote:
I thought I would post this as there seems to be a few threads about lifesavers.

Personally I think there is an over use of lifesavers being taught in some schools, Rear observation is not to be confused with lifesavers, they are different. At the end of the day the more time spent looking behind you is less time spent concentrating on whats ahead of you.

As per the DSA :

Rear Observation refers to a combination of mirror checks and looking behind which ensures your always fully aware of whats happening behind you.

Before you signal, change direction or change speed you must know how your actions will affect the traffic behind you. You also have to know when traffic is likely to over take or come alongside you.

Looking behind is important because not all motorcycles are fitted with mirrors, and mirrors dont always give a clear view behind, leaving significant blind spots. There will be times when you need to look around to see the full picture.

Looking behind also warns other drivers that you may be about to signal or alter course.

When to look behind

Use judgement in deciding when to look behind. Obviously when your looking behind your not looking ahead. This could be hazardous, if, fro example, your close to the vehicle in front or if your overtaking at speed. Equally there are situations when it is dangerous not to look behind, such as a right turn into a minor road.

Take rear observation when your about to change position or speed as you approach and negotiate a hazard. This might be before:

Moving off
Turning left or right
Overtaking
Changing Lanes
Slowing or Stopping

Looking over your shoulder to often or at the wrong moment can be hazardous and lead to a test fail, in the time you take to look behind, you can:

Loose touch with whats going on in front
Run the risk of veering off course

At high speed or in congested moving traffic your attention needs to be focussed ahead. In these situations time your rearward checks carefully.

Combine regular and sensible use of mirrors with the lifesaver check into the blind area before altering course.

The "lifesaver" check is a last check over the shoulder into the blind spot to make sure nothing unexpected is happening before committing yourself to a manoeuvre.

If your turning, use it to check the blind spot on the side you intend to turn. Use your judgement about when to use it. In congested urban situations a lifesaver is normally essential, especially when turning right into a minor road, but during high speed overtaking, when your certain whats happening behind you, its often safer yo keep your eyes on whats happening ahead.

The blind area

The blind area is the area behind and to either side of you which is not covered by mirrors, its very important to check for traffic in this area before:

Moving off
Changing direction
Changing lane
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neil.
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Joined: 24 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 13:28 - 18 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

My other half was terrified about going on the bike but when she tried it for the first time after I passed my test, she loved it and always pesters me to let her ride pillion now. Good luck! Thumbs Up
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Wise1
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Joined: 15 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: 17:46 - 18 Oct 2008    Post subject: Re: Rear Observation and lifesavers Reply with quote

Bikecrazy wrote:
Thanks for that Lee going to do DAS tomorrow hoping to pass to take wife out on it she is scared on bikes so hope this will show her how bikes are when they out on road.

Did u pass your DAS test by the way joined today so didnt know



Yes, passed with two minors. Good luck Thumbs Up
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Previous - GSXR750 SRAD, Fireblade, ZXR750, CBR600
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Bikecrazy
Two Stroke Sniffer



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PostPosted: 19:27 - 18 Oct 2008    Post subject: thanks Reply with quote

Thanks, hope i pass
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The Disapproving Brit
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PostPosted: 12:42 - 19 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

loply wrote:

Right hand lifesaver as you turn right a T-Junction. Fair enough if you stalled and spent an hour faffing with your gears, otherwise nobody in their right mind will be overtaking you on the wrong side of the road at a T-Junction.


Where do you live? I want to move there.

Often, they're not overtaking *you*. They're usually doing one of two things:

1) overtaking the granny they've been stuck behind for the last 5 minutes, and the gap you want to use it arguably big enough for an overtake - pissed off drivers have poor obs and heavy right feet.

2) they want to turn right too. They've seen the same gap you have, and they're putting their toe down so they can make it.

In both cases, your road position and profile allows traffic to filter past on your left where it wouldn't necessarily be able to do so on a car. The car driver knows a car can't be there because traffic is flowing normally, and the idea that a bike could be there hasn't crossed his mind. Also, they have airbags and seatbelts, which negates the need to look where they're going.

In short - don't put your life in the hands of someone who probably hasn't even acknowledged your existence.
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