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So, the price of a barrel of oil has halved...

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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 19:29 - 17 Oct 2008    Post subject: So, the price of a barrel of oil has halved... Reply with quote
...when are those scum going to halve the price of electricity and gas ("but electricity and gas prices are connected to the price of oil" they whined)?

Just like with gasoline, fvcking fast as sh!t off a shovel to put the prices up, but bring them back down? SO PROSECUTE THE SCUM-SUCKING FILTH MR BROWN!!! Evil or Very Mad

No excuses, no bullsh!t, DO YOUR FVCKING JOB!
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WildGoose
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PostPosted: 19:48 - 17 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quite agree, I work for an animal feed merchant, and our suppliers have been whacking up their prices monthly without fail, putting the increases down to the price of raw material i.e. straight grains, wheat, corn, barley etc. Naturally the boss has had to pass this on to our customers, along with our hefty diesel bills for transporting the stuff, customer numbers dropping like flies.

Now that grain prices are supposedly falling, will we see those prices falling? I doubt it somehow.

I have read that it takes 6 weeks for the falling oil prices to reach back to the pumps, and we do seem to be seeing this now, but all things being equal by rights, petrol should be hitting mid 80's pence per litre if its as simple as they make it sound.

I didn't think we would see it go back below the pound due to all the faff of having to change the neon price boards outside the stations, sounds like all the excuse they need to never let us have a litre for less than a quid again.

As for electricity and gas, fuck knows how they calculate that, glad my house is small, bloody rip off. Someone somewhere is getting a fattened wallet.
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WildGoose
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PostPosted: 19:50 - 17 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Sure itchy will be along in a second to point our the exchange rate has gone on holiday, and its about time we started cracking each others heads open and eating the contents with a rusty spoon before its too late.
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Al
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PostPosted: 20:34 - 17 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
WildGoose wrote:
Sure itchy will be along in a second to point our the exchange rate has gone on holiday, and its about time we started cracking each others heads open and eating the contents with a rusty spoon before its too late.


Has the hyperinflation theory gone tits up then Laughing

I've got a good mind to charge him for all the fucking tinned foods and weapons I've been collecting over past few months to weather out the hyperinflation storm his been telling us about!
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JonB
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PostPosted: 20:39 - 17 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Itchy has his heart in the right place, but he gives scaremongering a whole new name altogether. Razz

Gas and electricity companies have gone quiet recently. They're probably all sunning in the Carribean with their fat wads of cash in tow.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 23:25 - 17 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
My brother heard some cvnt energy-comp representitive on the radio. The DJ asked her how soon before we'd see gas and electric prices coming down.

"Oh, no time soon, they're not linked to oil prices."

"But last time we had you on you said the rising prices were due to the price of oil and that they were linked!"

"No, it doesn't work in reverse, due to how we buy on the futures." (whatever the fvck that means).

Radio-2, The Jeremy Vine Show.

Shameless lying criminal filth.
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Phoenix
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PostPosted: 00:13 - 18 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
The UK is bankrupt as a nation, we owe more pounds than there are stars in the universe, i've seen the accounts and the truth would make you kill yourself.

/Itchy

If petrol prices dropped to what they were the last time oil was this cheap (factoring in exchange rate changes) then it'd almost look like the government/oil companies/whoever where being mildly honest, which ofcourse would never be true, so they're staying inflated, they'll go back up again soon. Nice to see while ASDA and Morrissons dropped their prices to 99p Tesco kept theirs at £1.10 a litre, guess they figured a couple of days at the old rate while their costs have halved would net them a nice tidy profit while spending is at an all time low, they'll drop them just before they start to look too greedy.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 00:58 - 18 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Phoenix wrote:
The UK is bankrupt as a nation, we owe more pounds than there are stars in the universe, i've seen the accounts and the truth would make you kill yourself.

/Itchy

If petrol prices dropped to what they were the last time oil was this cheap (factoring in exchange rate changes) then it'd almost look like the government/oil companies/whoever where being mildly honest, which ofcourse would never be true, so they're staying inflated, they'll go back up again soon. Nice to see while ASDA and Morrissons dropped their prices to 99p Tesco kept theirs at £1.10 a litre, guess they figured a couple of days at the old rate while their costs have halved would net them a nice tidy profit while spending is at an all time low, they'll drop them just before they start to look too greedy.


And these cvnting scum in govt hand over billions of our money to the criminal vermin in the banks and do absolutely nothing to regulate the blatant profiteering of the gasoline and energy companies. It's beyond outrageous. It's so blatant they might as well stand in front of us, sneer and go "What the fvck are you going to do about it? Huh? You mugs!"

A bitterly cold winter, millions unable to afford to heat their homes, followed by mass rioting. Something's got to galvanise the masses.
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Glen
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PostPosted: 01:24 - 18 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Get a few of these on

https://img.alibaba.com/photo/11678425/100_Lambs_Wool_Machine_Washable_Sweater.jpg

Turn off the heating, and don't let them have any of your money. Thankfully I live between two old dears who run their heating 24/7 which heats my house nicely without me spending a penny Very Happy
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Aikman666
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PostPosted: 01:38 - 18 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you like the morality of oil companies. Heres one for you:
For the protection of my own ass im going to keep this completely hypothetical Wink Wink Wink

Theres a drilling & exploration unit out at sea currently. Its a mobile, bi-podal drilling & exploration unit, reffered to as a "gorilla class" unit. Recently this unit was hit by a supply boat suffering from malcfunctioning mauevering thrusters (so the report said). This caused the platform to obviously sway quite a bit off axis - and a fair amount of damage. This is where it gets interesting.

There apparently is a bit of a loophole. If they perform the safety checks done and a problem is found then the entire unit has to be moved to drydock immediately for repairs. Meanwhile there is nothing pressing them to make said check (but unofficial estimates put the damage to the unit at around £14 million - who knows!).

The simple fact of the matter is - if that unit sank, killing everyone onboard, they could pay out ALL of the compo, all the insurances - for less than what their loss would be for the time it would take to repair the thing.

Really they are weighing up the costs of peoples lives versus their profit margins. Thats not cricket - It just shows, people are nothing but numbers to the guys at the top.
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D O G
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PostPosted: 14:08 - 18 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hetzer wrote:
"No, it doesn't work in reverse, due to how we buy on the futures." (whatever the fvck that means).

Radio-2, The Jeremy Vine Show.

Shameless lying criminal filth.


I'm assuming (and playing devil's advocate here), that he is hinting at the fact that they bought a stupid volume of gas/oil on a future contract (effectively fixing the price for them for x number of barrells/cubic metres etc), when prices were high, and there appeared to be no sign of them dropping.

Remember all that cuffuffle 3 months ago when people were saying we were at peak oil, and the world was going to end etc. It was these futures which were driving the oil price up massively. Companies genuinely believed that the oil was at a peak, and they would have to secure as much as they could.

Hence they bought futures at the high point in the market, which will affect them for up to a year or more. I had a client who bought steel on future contracts, which was still affecting their profits 18 months later.

He is kinda saying they fucked up.

The only winners in the oil price surge are the future traders who sold at $120-130/barrel and are now able to settle those at $80/barrel. Big bonuses for them this year.

Business, and the management of large businesses is very complex, with a large number of variables and potential unforseen circumstances. They are not always trying to screw people over (in fact I have not met any members of senior management of businesses who are trying to do that), sometimes they just make mistakes.

Now, having said this, he may well be talking out of his arse, knowing that the energy industry is an oligopoly, which has inherent price fixing, and as such needs to defend the position of not lowering prices. In such markets (with few suppliers and a virtually identical product), if one company lowers prices, then everyone else has to. The 'trick' is not flinching first, thus maximising profits at the higher sale price before people undercut you, and you have to follow their price drop.
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D O G
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PostPosted: 14:15 - 18 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Aikman666 wrote:
The simple fact of the matter is - if that unit sank, killing everyone onboard, they could pay out ALL of the compo, all the insurances - for less than what their loss would be for the time it would take to repair the thing.

Really they are weighing up the costs of peoples lives versus their profit margins. Thats not cricket - It just shows, people are nothing but numbers to the guys at the top.


You miss a major consideration, which is bad publicity, and the serious effort in resolving the compensation issues.

It seems that everyone who does not have any experience with senior management just wants to paint them as total arseholes, which, from my experience is not the case. Arseholes are, in my experience, equally distributed throughout the population.

An organisation who has sufficient resources to own a drilling platform would not consider $14m a big deal, particularly when there would be a potential insurance claim against the vessel which hit it.

This sounds to me as a bit of a rumour started by disgruntled and bored people looking to have a dig at the 'people at the top'.

Genuinely, I wonder why people think that being in a senior position automatically makes you a heartless, money grabbing piece of subhuman filth. Confused
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map
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PostPosted: 14:24 - 18 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Aikman666 wrote:
...Really they are weighing up the costs of peoples lives versus their profit margins. Thats not cricket - It just shows, people are nothing but numbers to the guys at the top.

Always been the case with oil companies.
I have worked on Fire & Gas Safety Systems for the North Sea production platforms.
All the sensitive detectors and the fire suppressants were around the major bits of kit. That's because the lead time for replacement would cost thousands (10s, 100s thou). So they couldn't afford it to be damaged. Yet obviously the time taken to replace any of the crew would be just a helicopter ride from Aberdeen.
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D O G
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PostPosted: 14:31 - 18 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
map wrote:
Aikman666 wrote:
...Really they are weighing up the costs of peoples lives versus their profit margins. Thats not cricket - It just shows, people are nothing but numbers to the guys at the top.

Always been the case with oil companies.
I have worked on Fire & Gas Safety Systems for the North Sea production platforms.
All the sensitive detectors and the fire suppressants were around the major bits of kit. That's because the lead time for replacement would cost thousands (10s, 100s thou). So they couldn't afford it to be damaged. Yet obviously the time taken to replace any of the crew would be just a helicopter ride from Aberdeen.


What would you suggest instead? Fire crews onboard at all times, with a guy following each person around with a fire extinguisher? Guess that guy should have his own fire shadower too, and that one. Rolling Eyes

The expensive bits of kit to which you refer don't move, and so to spend an extra 5% of cost in providing them with high levels of fire protection just makes sense.

Humans are mobile and unpredictable, and as such cannot be compared to a static machine.

What would you suggest they should do? Sack off the fire protection for the equipment and employ flunkies to follow you round all the time.

I thought they had quite decent safety standards (or at least a lot of training and equipment) on the rigs. Having never worked on one tho, I could well be wrong.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 16:04 - 18 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Damofo D.O.G. wrote:


The only winners in the oil price surge are the future traders who sold at $120-130/barrel and are now able to settle those at $80/barrel. Big bonuses for them this year.

Business, and the management of large businesses is very complex, with a large number of variables and potential unforseen circumstances. They are not always trying to screw people over (in fact I have not met any members of senior management of businesses who are trying to do that), sometimes they just make mistakes.




was going to type what you were going to say, except that the difference is there is no moral hazard...

In that if you hedge/bet wrong you keep prices high and get your 'losses' back from the consumer thus you still make the profits to keep your EPS high.

If you bet right you have lower input costs and your prices are still kept high , and thus you again win.



Damofo D.O.G. wrote:

In such markets (with few suppliers and a virtually identical product), if one company lowers prices, then everyone else has to. The 'trick' is not flinching first, thus maximising profits at the higher sale price before people undercut you, and you have to follow their price drop.



What I think you meant to say was that was that representitives of the board for the energy companies all get together and agree an illegal cartel , since Germans and French own the UK's energy policies its a case of the exes at Eon phoning up the exes at EDF (ie the french government) and saying say old boy fancy screwing those silly roast bifs?.

Ja / Oui is usually the answer.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 16:15 - 18 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Phoenix wrote:
The UK is bankrupt as a nation, we owe more pounds than there are stars in the universe, i've seen the accounts and the truth would make you kill yourself.


anybody see that news story about the US debt clock running out of numbers?

Debt (taken from the CIA fact book)

Rank 1 United States $ 12,250,000,000,000 30 June 2007
Rank 2 United Kingdom $ 10,450,000,000,000 30 June 2007

Considering we have 1/5 the population yet about 80% of the debt , that looks like trouble to me, as a country we also have some nasty hidden debt like PFI , and civil service pensions.

Just to put this into context the 2007 entire UK tax take was about £550,000,000,000 and falling , I would convert it to $ for you but the numbers are too big for excel without displaying E signs.

Also to others if I knew what was going to happen I would be seriously wealthy in that not all the ingredients are there for hyper inflation.

Ie the massive inflation of the 70s was coupled by massive wage increases 3-4 times a year people would get big pay increases..8-10% was not uncommon.

Also that since the 1980s there has been a movement to index linked debt , which means you cannot use inflation to erode your debt, probably because creditors don't think its fair to get £90 in purchasing power when they loaned you £100.

Yet M4 is increasing constantly and the government keeps printing out more money for bank bail outs.

The third way is stagflation which is probably even worse.

What this means to you is massive tax increases after the next election,
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Last edited by Itchy on 16:20 - 18 Oct 2008; edited 1 time in total
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 16:15 - 18 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Itchy wrote:
In that if you hedge/bet wrong you keep prices high and get your 'losses' back from the consumer thus you still make the profits to keep your EPS high.

If you bet right you have lower input costs and your prices are still kept high , and thus you again win.


Or more likely, bet right, drop your prices and screw the opposition out of a load of customers.

Itchy wrote:
What I think you meant to say was that was that representitives of the board for the energy companies all get together and agree an illegal cartel , since Germans and French own the UK's energy policies its a case of the exes at Eon phoning up the exes at EDF (ie the french government) and saying say old boy fancy screwing those silly roast bifs?.


Which would be a very rapid way of losing their operating licence and so waving goodbye to the billions they spent buying the businesses.

All the best

Keith
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 16:24 - 18 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:
.
Which would be a very rapid way of losing their operating licence and so waving goodbye to the billions they spent buying the businesses.

All the best

Keith



Remember its only illegal if you get caught, and even if you get caught you'll be fined a paltry amount......

BA was caught price fixing and was fined £270 million , BA made £883million, and thus barely 20% of their pretax profit, now if they fined them 2-3bn then I would have more faith in 'regulation' (which is just a code word for bribes please).

MPs got caught money laundering , they gave it back said sorry and got off completely free. Anybody else launders money (no deminis limit) gets 4 years minimum at her Magesty's pleasure.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 16:37 - 18 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Itchy wrote:
Remember its only illegal if you get caught, and even if you get caught you'll be fined a paltry amount......


As I said, bye bye operating licence and even with no fine that has made their UK operation essentially worthless.

Itchy wrote:
BA was caught price fixing and was fined £270 million , BA made £883million, and thus barely 20% of their pretax profit,


Err, over 30% of their pre tax profit. Like fining you 30% of your pre tax salary.

All the best

Keith
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 16:42 - 18 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
So this future's thing, if I understand it correctly we're going to have to continue paying extortionate energy-bills because a bunch of parasite scum are allowed to gamble on the stock-market like it's their own private fvcking casino? And when it all goes tits-up because of their criminal greed and irresponsibility we have to bail them fvcking well out?! With yet more of our money? Just how many ways do these sub-human filth get to have the cake and eat it? With full govt connivance!

And now we find out they're still going to get their bonuses, but in the form of stocks and shares instead of cash. Ooh, that'll learn 'em, eh?

These whoring fvcking cvnts in govt and big business need executing.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 17:06 - 18 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hetzer wrote:
So this future's thing, if I understand it correctly we're going to have to continue paying extortionate energy-bills because a bunch of parasite scum are allowed to gamble on the stock-market like it's their own private fvcking casino?


Yes, but you also get the gas and electric cheaper when they screw up in the opposite direction.

All the best

Keith
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 18:55 - 18 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
For a good explanation of the futures market I recommend watching the film Trading places.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 19:34 - 18 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
sickpup wrote:
For a good explanation of the futures market I recommend watching the film Trading places.


It's already come back to me. Bears and bulls and sh!t. Gambling. With our money, effectively. We provide all the ante and a few parasites cream off the top by gambling with it. Scum, filth and fvcking vermin. Them and their entire families should be exterminated. Eradicate the sewage from the gene-pool. Fat useless shiftless leeches. Provide nothing, take everything, and we pay for the fvcking lot.

Cvnts.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 19:36 - 18 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:
Hetzer wrote:
So this future's thing, if I understand it correctly we're going to have to continue paying extortionate energy-bills because a bunch of parasite scum are allowed to gamble on the stock-market like it's their own private fvcking casino?


Yes, but you also get the gas and electric cheaper when they screw up in the opposite direction.

All the best

Keith


Get real. When they "screw up in the opposite direction" they just make bigger profits. You think those scum ever pass it on to the man in the street?
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Silver
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PostPosted: 21:47 - 18 Oct 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hetzer wrote:
Gambling. With our money, effectively. We provide all the ante and a few parasites cream off the top by gambling with it.


I'm still waiting for my mortgage to reflect the 0.5% interest rate drop...

On a similar subject:

https://img95.imageshack.us/img95/9246/image001lf9.gif
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