Where are we heading?

[ColdInsomnia]

Just something of a general thread to share our opinions on why the world is the way it is, and where it is going. Hopefully this might spark some interesting discussion (something this forum has lacked recently).


What do you see happening in the next 12 months?

5 years?

25 years time?



...Put simply, I just want to see what those amongst you who think we're not sleepwalking into a terrifying surveillience society / police state see happening.

The good guys wins, terrorism is defeated, politics solves all our problems and your children and grandchildren are now free to live their lives in peace and happiness? Just look at the smile on Mr Brown's face he's so convincing.
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"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
John Lennon

[bazza]

https://lake.blogs.com/.a/6a00d83452654869e200e55282a8928834-500pi
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[Itchy]

The world is the way it is due to debt, people think debt equates to wealth, it can lead to wealth if you spend it correctly but plenty of people do not (look at the beeb examples people onthe dole getting 175K mortgages).

Partially because of a lack of being able to think about things anybody sensible would have thought its got to end this madness and it has.

Note that the government solution to the debt is to create even more debt... which won't work...

resulting in a

A declining standard of living , which will continue to decline for a very very long time..

More and more debt = more and more taxes..

The collection method is via surveillance and a strict rules based society since small increases in tax are unacceptable the gigantic rises in taxes will definately not be acceptable (the recently 50bn bail out means 5p on income tax, the bigger 350bn bail out requires 35p increase in income tax). They will collect it via fines for all sorts of trivial things.

Terrorism is the perfect enemy in such that unlike the USSR or the Nazis it is in effect a perpetual war which in effect cannot ever be won.

I feel that the terrorism laws are probably developed to deal with the fall out from the effect of declining standards of living and people unable to feed themselves even with fairly decent jobs, ie poll tax riots happened as people had little to lose....

Riots will occur in the future as people had things but had it taken away and thus have nothing to lose.



5-25 years time?

'Other' countries will own whatever is left of the UK , zimbabwe can borrow money off China because it sells its future land rights, and thus in effect housing stock might well be sold off to foriegners , just like EON energy and EDF and look how they put prices up like there is no tommorow.
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Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

[ColdInsomnia]

[bazza]

[ColdInsomnia]

Sure, we're doomed in one way or another. I guess you could call me one of those few people who actually gives a shit, even if only a little.

But hey, if economic slavery (or indeed any form of slavery) is what we get then quite frankly it's what we deserve.


BUT I was BANKING on the ALIENS arriving on OCT 14 to SPREAD THE LOVE and quite FRANKLY the only REASON they DIDN'T ARRIVE is because WE are not DESERVING enough of THEIR LOVE.


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Yamaha YB100 | Yamaha TZR125 | Yamaha XJ600S | Suzuki GSF600
"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
John Lennon

[pa_broon74]

I think the UK is in a descendency (as opposed to an ascendency.) In fact I think the whole west is going to fade, probably not entirely but certainly there is going to be a redistribution of power and wealth.

Asia is now ascendent, this is where the bulk of wealth is/will be generated (although I don't think its being shared out fairly with India sending a probe to the moon but still having people living in abject poverty...)

In terms of humanity, we are our own worst enemy. I think we'll just bumble along, bumping into things in our time-honoured way. You just can't have humanity without greed, hubris, pride and cruelty.

We have lots of positive attributes and I suppose we are capable of some pretty amazing things, unfortunately these things tend to be swamped by our more base instincts.


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Didn't catch anything.

[igiyf]

[Kickstart]

Hi

Personally think we aer heading downwards. And concerned that the government is making this far worse in its attempts to hide it. For example, massive and expensive bureaucracy as a way to employ people and hide low numbers who are actually doing anything useful.

We have a population who largely are not doing anything useful, and failing to really generate anything that brings income into the country. Which wouldn't be so bad if we didn't send so much out of the country buying goods.

The far east is definatly in the ascendency financially. China is doing well selling us goods, and as they become richer and us (comparitively) poorer they can switch more to supplying home demand.

Large problem is that we have a hideously over valued currency and a hideously high opinion of our value. Why is an hour of UK minimum wage work worth double that of an hour of US unskilled minimum wage work, let alone compared to someone in China doing similar unskilled work? Trouble is that these costs filter back through the system and add more costs, such as higher taxes and higher prices, hence the wish for higher wages, etc.

Fortunatly we do still produce some worthwhile goods, and we also have the ability to produce plenty of food (at the moment too much is wasted due to farmers having to chase the organic niche market, which is viable because people will pay more for it, which is only possible as people are over paid). Given a bit of time things can sort themselves out. However does need a decent amount of investment of money rather than just wasting it (ie, if we have the expense of putting someone through university then at least make the courses they do something productive, rather than something so useless it just delays their unskilled call centre job by a few years).

All the best

Keith
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[Hetzer]

It's pretty bloody simple. There was the village, eight citizens and a shop selling ten loaves of bread per day. Over time the population rose to fifteen citizens and the shop upped it's output to fifteen loaves. Now there are twenty-five citizens and the shop is maxed-out at twenty-three loaves. Next year there will be thirty citizens. The citizens will start rioting because they'll be hungry.

A temporary solution would be free energy, which would allow unrestricted de-salination and terra-forming. But if the population is allowed to continue growing without regulation we'll eventually simply run out of physical space for bodies/housing vs growing areas.
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"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!"

[killa]

Down here...

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Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
Bike:- Yamaha TRX850 | Killas Biking History | Killas Gaming History | Killas autmotive history

[colin1]

Its just normal boom and bust economic cycle.

We have had times of economic confidence and everything being over valued, and suddenly everything has gone bump, to reflect that actual values are much lower. Eventually things will drift back up, or possibly drift down before drifting back up.

Long term, we may be on the decline, with asia and other emerging markets on their way up, but they have their problems too.

I've got a bit stung, but it could have been worse, I just need to make an effort to get some kind of marketable skill that means I'm in demand for work.

People who are in demand dont really have to worry so much about the general mood of the economy.

I don't expect any world apocalypse scenarios actually coming true. Although I'm sure a few people who are over-stretched will have their own personal apocalypses such as losing their home etc.

I think in uncertain times, its best to play it safe.
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colin1 is officially faster than god

[WildGoose]

[colin1]

only if you have a big patch of land and the skills to hunter gather

i doubt many of us would really want to live like cavemen

I might for a week possibly at a push, but no more than that
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colin1 is officially faster than god

[Hetzer]

I tell you what I see, and that's more and more people thinking and talking like me. Even some of those who used to give me grief for it.

It's the same out in the real world too. It's like people in general are finally starting to wake up to the nazi sh!t that's going down.

I see momentous events heaving into view over the horizon. Confluence.

I hope there's a chance for a big handful of payback.
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"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!"

[colin1]

who would you want to get even with ? u seem to be doing ok in life
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colin1 is officially faster than god

[Hetzer]

[JonB]

We are obviously looking at a re-distribution of power. We headed into a unilateral power structure. However if you thought what we was living in now was shit. You wait until the powerhouses of China, India and Russia have their own way. Hundreds of years of being left behind, made a mockery of and not being taken seriously will have consequences for each and every one of us.

It's already happening, Russia can switch off our gas supplies at the flick of a switch, they are already initiating an "OPEC" style cartel group for gas prices, so obviously prices will rise. OPEC for oil are constantly fucking us up the arse, they are having an emergency meeting today because god forbid oil drops below $70 a barrel. They seemed to be doing alright 2 years ago when it was less than $70 a barrel, why don't they just suck up the current economic situation and let us have a chance to take stock of things. I can't wait until something comes along that completely dooms oil, watching those spineless arab rulers scraping the barrel (no pun) trying to resist a mass movement to other energies will be a sight to see, though the chances of a revolutionary energy type coming from our motherland is unlikely.

I'm not fussed that our countries status is going down the pan, i'd be quite happy if we slipped into obscurity on the world stage, suddenly Johnny Foreigner wont want to live here, the government would be more concerned about us, rather than where we fit in the world ecosystem.

If you think the West is the only place hitting the fan however, you are severely mistaken. China is only a few steps away from social self destruction.

I think i'll have whatever Kerry Katona is drinking.
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Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it?s worth.

[Itchy]

check out the exchange rate it appears that we just passed toast
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Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

[pa_broon74]

What we need is some reason, trouble is, theres no reasoning with a mob.


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Didn't catch anything.

[SoND]

We're being dumbed down, 100 years ago it used to be survival of the fittest, now everyone gets to live without having to think about anything, leaving us with a saturation of people that nature should have taken care of a long time ago.

A mother pumps out another unit to feed it on cheap fast food in front of a tv being raised by whatever our responsible media puts on. Kids growing up getting everything they think they want because they've already been raped by the advertising machine before the age of 5. Growing up to get a job they don't like to pay for all the overpriced shit they don't need. Do as your told and shut up, you don't need to think for yourself.

There are two roads to peace, an oppressive police state that has complete control and surveillance over everything or by the elightenment that we are all one and free to find the truth the lies within us all by whatever means we see fit. We are deep into the former and we're still falling head first even further into it. While the world doesn't look very peaceful with violent crime at the highest rates ever and the terrorists round every fucking corner it's working perfectly for the hugely wealthy and powerful few who don't have to deal with any of it. Their wreckless abandon has caused chaos with the global economy and we're told that we have to pay for it with no repercussions for those responsible, at the very worst they might have to lead a life of semi-luxury and everyone else is left out in the cold because everyone is too caught up with all the meaningless shit that is life today to do anything about it.

We get told there is a boogeyman bomber in a cave somewhere and we're going to invade two countries to find him. We've paid for the deaths of thousands of innocent people over the past 7 years and there's no end in sight, we never had a choice. Where's all the money where it's needed most?

I don't know what's going to happen but when they're telling us we're going to be tagged like animals with our every movement watched it's not looking good. They've thrown us overboard and they're going to watch as the shit hits the fan. In the big picture as a society we're still immature kids bickering and fighting with each other instead of working together to stop us from destroying ourselves.
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Go back to bed - You have no rights - "Streetfighters ~ Mainstream motorcycling's crackwhore sister."

[ColdInsomnia]

[Itchy]

But SOND people DEMAND IT , they want an all seeing totalitarian state , in that they vote for it and do nothing to stop it...



Part of the problem lies in that people do not think for themselves,


Oh big bad terrorists are going to kill us ....

remember that average bloke programme? on TV (when I used to have a TV) they asked mr average what concerned him , he said terrorism.....

but then most people don't think that terrorists in the last oh 10 years have killed what <100 people while cars have killed circa 40,000 people...


But the bigger problem is that people don't grow up, I feel that there is an entire generation of big bodied children people who can't think and act for themselves...

I think technology has some blame in all of this , but think back to your father , I remember my dad , every few weeks he would go and do some work on the car, or he would be able to fix the boiler in the house, fix the gas supply the fridge the washing machine, he fixed the TV often enough....

He could cook , build things fix things....

Compare to some people these days , I get asked alot by the neighbours to fix utterly simple things, a guy 2 doors down asked me to 'have a look' at his house why his electricity had gone off... the bistable 'fuse' had tripped , he couldn't even do that....

Thus as SOND says there are two methods , make people more self sufficient or go the totalitarian route....

I think history will see some of us as oddities you know , fix things?,, do things that risk our lives.... nah you must be kidding...
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Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

[igiyf]

RAND Lobbies Pentagon: Start War To Save U.S. Economy

According to news out of top Chinese mainstream news outlets and French Press,the RAND Corporation recently presented a shocking proposal to the Pentagon in which it lobbied for a war to be started with a major foreign power in an attempt to stimulate the American economy and prevent a recession.

A fierce debate has now ensued in China about who that foreign power may be, with China itself as well as Russia and even Japan suspected to be the targets of aggression.

The reports cite French media news sources as having uncovered the proposal, in which RAND suggested that the $700 billion dollars that has been earmarked to bailout Wall Street and failing banks instead be used to finance a new war which would in turn re-invigorate the flagging stock markets.

The RAND Corporation is a notoriously powerful NGO with deep ties to the U.S. military-industrial complex as well as interlocking connections with the Ford, Rockefeller, and Carnegie foundations.

Current directors of RAND include Frank Charles Carlucci III, former Defense Secretary and Deputy Director of the CIA, Ronald L. Olson, Council on Foreign Relations luminary and former Secretary of Labor, and Carl Bildt, top Bilderberg member and former Swedish Prime Minister.

Carlucci was chairman of the Carlyle Group from 1989-2005 and oversaw gargantuan profits the defense contractor made in the aftermath of 9/11 following the invasion of Afghanistan. The Carlyle Group has also received investment money from the Bin Laden family.

Reportedly, the RAND proposal brazenly urged that a new war could be launched to benefit the economy, but stressed that the target country would have to be a major influential power, and not a smaller country on the scale of Afghanistan or Iraq.

The reports have prompted a surge of public debate and tension in China about the possibility that a new global conflict is on the horizon.

China’s biggest media outlet, Sohu.com, speculated that the target of the new war would probably be China or Russia, but that it could also be Iran or another middle eastern country. Japan was also mentioned as a potential target for the reason that Japan holds the most U.S. debt.

North Korea was considered as a target but ruled out because the scale of such a war would not be large enough for RAND’s requirements.

The reported RAND proposal dovetails with recent comments made by Joe Biden, Colin Powell, Madeleine Albright and others, concerning the “guarantee” that Barack Obama will face a major “international crisis” soon after taking office.

It also arrives following a warning from Michael Bayer, chairman of a key Pentagon advisory panel, who echoed the statement that the next administration will face an international crisis within months of taking office.

One would hope that good people, or at least sane people who don’t wish to start a global nuclear war, will oppose the RAND proposal, such as top the military generals who threatened to quit if Bush ordered an attack on Iran. Admiral William Fallon, the head of US Central Command, quit in March last year as a result of his opposition to Bush administration policy on Iran.

[JonB]

What a load of tosh. Start a ground war with Russia or China? Never gonna happen. Troops never encountered each other in the Cold War. It still wouldn't happen today, both countries still have enough nukes to see the world off at least a few times over.

I don't doubt that this RAND corporation wants war, but it just won't happen, even some Yank at the very top will have a small ounce of common sense to see it.
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Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it?s worth.