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If a chain was too tight *UPDATE*

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funmonkee
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PostPosted: 22:16 - 20 Nov 2008    Post subject: If a chain was too tight *UPDATE* Reply with quote

What damage could it cause Question

Aside from snapping...

Has anyone had a chain that was too tight 'unscrewing' the rear sprocket bolts Question

I had an experience tonight and it wasn't pleasant Surprised
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Last edited by funmonkee on 13:05 - 28 Nov 2008; edited 1 time in total
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TAX MY BRAIN
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PostPosted: 22:27 - 20 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

not nice all all,

did you use locktight on the rear sprocket bolt's Question

much damage ??
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funmonkee
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PostPosted: 22:35 - 20 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

three bolts were about 3-4 mm out, one was about 10 mm into tbhe swingarm,... not sure how safe that is now... btw it's an MZ Baghira... felt like a flat rear tyre at first then bahboom locked tight. had to cut the bolt with a hacksaw to free the wheel and trundle home with fingers crossed Surprised

TBH, I've had the bike about a week and ahalf and didn't check the sprocket bolts...but I'm sure I would have noticed them hanging out....
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 22:37 - 20 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Surprised it did anything to those nuts. Very surprised.

Normal affect of an over tight chain is to wreck the bearing behind the front sprocket.

All the best

Keith
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Finglonga
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PostPosted: 22:44 - 20 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

As above, I would think the bolts were already loose and the tight chain had nothing to do with it. Shocked
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funmonkee
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PostPosted: 22:46 - 20 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's difficult to get good pictures especially since the damage is on the inside of the swingarm

https://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q73/funmonkee/baggi%20prob/IMG_0191.jpg

https://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q73/funmonkee/baggi%20prob/IMG_0190.jpg

here's you can see the groove is along the weld

https://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q73/funmonkee/baggi%20prob/IMG_0196.jpg

All seems pretty solid, but I'm note sure, definately not 100% sure...
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 23:00 - 20 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

What bike is it? Not seen bolts used like that. Pretty much every bike has a bolt coming from the inside with a nut on the outside, and the nut is normally some kind of self locking one.

Check the sprocket carrier bearing hasn't failed.

All the best

Keith
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TAX MY BRAIN
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PostPosted: 23:01 - 20 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

is it the picture or is your chain covered in red rust ??

as for the damage to the weild id get it checked out by someone in the know
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funmonkee
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PostPosted: 23:04 - 20 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah I think once I've got then new bolt(s), I'll take it a nice slow ride along to the local tech and ask their advice. I think the groove is about 8-10 mm deep into the swingarm.

The manuals say the bolts are ISO7380 M10 x 1,25 x 40-10.9

TBM, the chain has some rust. I've been oiling the chain by hand all week (waiting for an automatica oiler to turn up Evil or Very Mad) I think the red is just my camera...its more brown...
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Last edited by funmonkee on 23:06 - 20 Nov 2008; edited 1 time in total
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 23:06 - 20 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess is that the sprocket wasn't torqued properly and the vibration set-up by running an over-tight chain has worked tohe bolts out. Either that or just a co-incidence.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 23:11 - 20 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

It they are meant to be bolts then I would guess they are meant to be loctited in.

All the best

Keith
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funmonkee
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PostPosted: 23:20 - 20 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

The most worrying thing, was the night before I had it upto an indicated 100 MPH... glad the bolts didn't decide to make a sharp exist then Surprised
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yen_powell
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PostPosted: 23:34 - 20 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you run your chain too tight you run the risk of shagging your output shaft bearing. This usually means splitting the crankcases to replace a 10 quid bearing, which in most engine designs means taking the whole lot apart.
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Billd
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PostPosted: 23:41 - 20 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure I'd be happy with that weld on the swinging arm! Has it been broken and repaired in the past? I agree that the bolts look very weird, usually bolts coming out with nuts on the outside!!
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funmonkee
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PostPosted: 00:04 - 21 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a weld on both sides of the swingarm. I think it's just the way the swingarm is constructed. I might take swingamr off and get it strengthen/checked over.... but I really wanted this bike to be my winter hack ..and not have to worry too much about it...
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alun111
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PostPosted: 08:48 - 21 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

vmax.dude wrote:

TBM, the chain has some rust. I've been oiling the chain by hand all week (waiting for an automatica oiler to turn up Evil or Very Mad) I think the red is just my camera...its more brown...


Use a small wire brush (i.e bristles close together) to get all of the rust off, and then keep it oiled. Keeping it in the rain makes the chain rust faster, so if it's outside keep it under a cover.
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hmmmnz
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PostPosted: 10:14 - 21 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol, do you think he's 15 and just got his learners???

he's just a lazy bastard Very Happy


paul are you saving up all your jobs for me when im back in scotland in may???
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hmmmnz
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PostPosted: 10:18 - 21 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh yeah,

the swing arm is supposed to be like that (not the nut dent)
its the join from the square tube to the solid section for the axle.
if you are worried take a quick blast up to our friends at pentland tech, and speak to the master Very Happy

he'll tell you if he thinks it needs to be strengthened,

my guess is its fine, but you might want to get him to fill in the gouge and get some loctite onto those bolts Thumbs Up
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funmonkee
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PostPosted: 11:37 - 21 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

TBH, the gouge isn't that impressive. I can get my pinkie in the groove, but it doesn't look too worrying.

I'll need to check everything on the bike now...

Hmmmnz, I guess the MZ will be the bike you'll use in May Laughing
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Wozza
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PostPosted: 15:03 - 21 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are the symptoms of a worn sprocket carrier bearing / output shaft bearing? And is running one likely to cause any further damage?
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 15:12 - 21 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wozza wrote:
What are the symptoms of a worn sprocket carrier bearing / output shaft bearing? And is running one likely to cause any further damage?


Worn output shaft is likely to leak oil and cause vibrations.

Worn sprocket carrier bearings will also cause vibrations, and allow movement in the carrier, possibly allowing the carrier bolts to take chunks out of the swinging arm. Commonly happens when people forget to put the spacer back in between the sprocket carrier and the wheel.

And also both are quite possibly going to sieze.

All the best

Keith
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stirlinggaz
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PostPosted: 19:16 - 21 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi,
havnt read all the replies, so dunno if this has been said,
but i learnt the hard way, when i overtightened a chain years ago, on a 125.
as i was pulling away in 2nd it felt like i had left the choke on,
then when i got up to around 40, in 3rd, heard an almighty bang & i lost speed. (i was going up hill)
quickly pulled the clutch in & managed to get to side of dual carriageway when i discoved that the overtightened chain caused 2 of the sprocket bolts to shear & the sprocket carrier to shatter!
i was luck it didnt cause any more damage to me & the bike.
cheers,
GAZ
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Wozza
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PostPosted: 21:23 - 21 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keith:
My chain has a tight spot and I was previously running it having adjusted the slack on the looser side. I could feel pulsing vibrations through the pegs and thinking it could be to do with the chain, decided to check the slack along its whole length - this is when I discovered the tight spot.
I adjusted the slack on the tight spot and the pulsing vibration disappeared, however I can feel a more constant but feint vibration at slow speed when engaging the clutch. Could this be something caused by the previously tight chain ie a bearing gone, or could it be just normal vibrations?
Many thanks,

And sorry for jumping in on your thread vmax!
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funmonkee
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PostPosted: 21:35 - 21 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

vmax.dude wrote:
... bolts are ISO7380 M10 x 1,25 x 40-10.9



I've tried severla places in Edinburgh, including the tech peeps and MEEF etc, even B&Q and halfords. Can anyone point me to a site where I can get these bolts... best I've been offered is m10 x1.5 x 40 which is the wrong pitch Sad
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stirlinggaz
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PostPosted: 21:57 - 21 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi,
try "stagonset" stock just about every bolt i've ever needed (well, the ones i couldnt get from local hardware store(AA-components bridge of allan).
63pence each i think.
never really bothered if i couldnt get the right lenth , just bought next size up & cut the excess off if necessary. (as long as pich/thread is same) though they do stock 40mm & 45mm
cheers,
GAZ
EDIT - cant see them on stagonsets site but there definately on NAMRICK's site.
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