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Coxyzxr
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Joined: 22 May 2008
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PostPosted: 12:32 - 24 Nov 2008    Post subject: Engine tuning/performance discussion forums? Reply with quote
Anyone know any engine tuning / performance engine discussion forums?

I'd love to post alot of questions on BCF about tuning and such but as it's quite indepth I'd like to find a dedicated engine tuning forum.

Anyone know any?

Regards.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 13:00 - 24 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
To be fair there are some never knowledgeable people on here about engine tuning.
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cagiva gezzer
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PostPosted: 19:26 - 24 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
2T / 4T / NA / Forced / Car / Bike / Truck / Boat?
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Coxyzxr
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Joined: 22 May 2008
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PostPosted: 10:51 - 25 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
cagiva gezzer wrote:
2T / 4T / NA / Forced / Car / Bike / Truck / Boat?


4Stroke + vehicle and NA. But other than that anything goes.
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 11:06 - 25 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm a member of a number of forums, T595.net, loads of MR2 forums, Scoobynet, the MZ forum etc etc. And the only one where I can get consistant and high quality specialist information remains BCF.

Arrow The Subaru forum people *think* that they know what they are talking about, but actually don't.

Arrow The MR2 forums are divided into 'modders' (chavs) drivers and tuners who don't give out any info.

Arrow The MZ forum appears to be up its own arse. T595.net is full of old men who don't know much.

The closest I've come to a decent specialist forum so far is the Buell forum.
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Coxyzxr
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Joined: 22 May 2008
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PostPosted: 11:25 - 25 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi Marjay thanks for the info, strangely I thought Suburu forum would be full of people like that.

I did search for criteria such as "performance tuning discussion forum" and "4 stroke tuning forum" etc but most of which just gave results for individual manufactur tuning forums ie the saxo performance tuning forums... I made sure I stayed well away from that one. Rolling Eyes
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Robby
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PostPosted: 11:28 - 25 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Stop being coy and ask what you want to ask on here.
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Coxyzxr
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 22 May 2008
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PostPosted: 11:33 - 25 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
robby wrote:
Stop being coy and ask what you want to ask on here.


Last time I did that about running no air filter I actually got internally violated by the lynchmob. Laughing

I may do, however it's not only that I also wanted I place I could browse through and pick information from here and there and peice together little tuning tips and tricks from the previous posts etc.
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 12:02 - 25 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Coxyzxr wrote:

Last time I did that about running no air filter I actually got internally violated by the lynchmob. Laughing


OK two points here.

First of all we were gentle with you compared to the likes of Pistonheads and Visordown.

Second of all, if you pick and choose tuning 'tips' you'll end up like that Spanish guy from the Mitsubishi forum who spraypainted his driveshaft bearings and took a file to his cylinder head.

You can't "Home tune" engines unless you REALLY know what you are doing, or have a good idea of what works before you start. Fitting an exhaust is one thing, but it won't give you any benefit unless you set the fuelling up on a dyno.

So, unless you've got a dyno in your shed and either years of tuning experience or many engines you can afford to destroy then its pretty impractical.
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Coxyzxr
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Joined: 22 May 2008
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PostPosted: 12:09 - 25 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
First of all we were gentle with you compared to the likes of Pistonheads and Visordown.


Oh and I should be gratful for for that?

MarJay wrote:

So, unless you've got a dyno in your shed and either years of tuning experience or many engines you can afford to destroy then its pretty impractical.


See here we go. Rolling Eyes

Well thanks for that, as I don't have a dyno I guess I better just let my interest in performance tuning go. Lucky you said that marjay as I was going to educate myself alot more on performance tuning. You've saved me alot of wasted time there.

Maybe I'll try stamp collecting. Rolling Eyes
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 12:17 - 25 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi

Personally I would say go and buy a few books. One that is easy to read and will give you the basics (although probably nothing specific to your vehicle, unless it is a Mini you want to tune) is How To Modify Your Mini by David Vizard. There there are the John Robinson books on 2 and 4 stroke tuning, along with the Graham-Bell ones. If you want a basic book on turbo charging then try the Corky Bell ones (although some people don't agree with him)

Problem is that if you are taking it from a forum you have no idea if the person giving the info is a serious engineer with loads of experience, or some kid with a Saxo that thinks more noise = more power, or that dumping the airbox will give more power. And as easily bolted on rubbish will give you next to nothing except more noise, those kids tend to be the most common ones.

Anything specific to a fairly modern vehicle is likely to be a closely guarded secret by the tuners who have trashed a few engines learning what works, and now want a return on their investment.

All the best

Keith
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SoND
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Joined: 10 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: 12:18 - 25 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Google

Has loads of tuning sites.

Amazon

Has loads of tuning books.
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Coxyzxr
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Joined: 22 May 2008
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PostPosted: 12:20 - 25 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:
Hi

Personally I would say go and buy a few books. One that is easy to read and will give you the basics (although probably nothing specific to your vehicle, unless it is a Mini you want to tune) is How To Modify Your Mini by David Vizard. There there are the John Robinson books on 2 and 4 stroke tuning, along with the Graham-Bell ones. If you want a basic book on turbo charging then try the Corky Bell ones (although some people don't agree with him)

Problem is that if you are taking it from a forum you have no idea if the person giving the info is a serious engineer with loads of experience, or some kid with a Saxo that thinks more noise = more power, or that dumping the airbox will give more power. And as easily bolted on rubbish will give you next to nothing except more noise, those kids tend to be the most common ones.

Anything specific to a fairly modern vehicle is likely to be a closely guarded secret by the tuners who have trashed a few engines learning what works, and now want a return on their investment.

All the best

Keith


Hi kickstart, thanks for the good info. I've read countless books, I have the 4stroke tuning by Graham bell an excellent read in fact one of the best books I've got. I have engine blueprinting by some (can't remember) guy and quite a few on cam timing and intake porting etc. About 12 books in total that cover blueprinting, tuning and just basic engine principles.

Hence the need for a forum to try and pick a few pieces of info up from here and there and make my own mind up as to wether it would work or not.
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Coxyzxr
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Joined: 22 May 2008
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PostPosted: 12:22 - 25 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
SoND wrote:
Google

Has loads of tuning sites.

Amazon

Has loads of tuning books.


See post above.

Oh and sometimes it's nice just to theorize over things, some nights i lay in bed awake wondering if 'that will work' or if 'that will work better'

dyno wouldhelps dramatically but it's not essential especially because at this stage I'm just theorizing over alot of stuff.
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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 12:27 - 25 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Coxyzxr wrote:
Hence the need for a forum to try and pick a few pieces of info up from here and there and make my own mind up as to wether it would work or not.


To be honest I suspect you will struggle (partly because how theoretical mods work in practice is going to depend on the particular design). You already have access to more knowledge than most of those on the forums so probably you next bet would be to try the mods and see what works. Unfortunatly you really could do with decent access to a dyno to check what works (it is easy to make an engine feel more powerful while actually having less power, just put a bit step in the power delivery).

All the best

Keith
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SoND
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PostPosted: 12:37 - 25 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Coxyzxr wrote:
Hence the need for a forum to try and pick a few pieces of info up from here and there and make my own mind up as to wether it would work or not.


What specifics are you looking information on?

Quote:
Oh and sometimes it's nice just to theorize over things, some nights i lay in bed awake wondering if 'that will work' or if 'that will work better'

dyno wouldhelps dramatically but it's not essential especially because at this stage I'm just theorizing over alot of stuff.


Unfortuanately there is a huge difference between knowing something in theory and practical experience so it will get to the point where the only way forward is to go out and do it yourself.
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Coxyzxr
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 22 May 2008
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PostPosted: 12:41 - 25 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:
Coxyzxr wrote:
Hence the need for a forum to try and pick a few pieces of info up from here and there and make my own mind up as to wether it would work or not.


To be honest I suspect you will struggle (partly because how theoretical mods work in practice is going to depend on the particular design). You already have access to more knowledge than most of those on the forums so probably you next bet would be to try the mods and see what works. Unfortunatly you really could do with decent access to a dyno to check what works (it is easy to make an engine feel more powerful while actually having less power, just put a bit step in the power delivery).

All the best

Keith


Yes I see what you mean. To be honest I do feel at the stage where I want to be trying things out but moneys really not permitting at the moment. So I was just continuing to read up on anything I can.
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chrisw
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Joined: 24 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: 13:04 - 25 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:
Hi

Personally I would say go and buy a few books. One that is easy to read and will give you the basics (although probably nothing specific to your vehicle, unless it is a Mini you want to tune) is How To Modify Your Mini by David Vizard. There there are the John Robinson books on 2 and 4 stroke tuning, along with the Graham-Bell ones. If you want a basic book on turbo charging then try the Corky Bell ones (although some people don't agree with him)


David Vizard's book on the A series engine (which is what I think Kickstart is talking about, the yellow bible...?) is fantastic for the theoretical engine tuner/builder no matter what engine you are working on. You just have to remember that it's written with a 5-port head in mind so skips over subjects which you really would want more information on if you are using a cross-flow.

I have a number of books I have collected over the last few years, all give roughly the same information but alot is opinion based, Corky's 'Maximum Boost' is a good example and Dave Walker's Hayne's book on Engine management is another.

Unless this is a subject you are going to study to an advanced level the best advise would be to just get stuck in.
Buy a cheap engine (very cheap), strip it, make your 'theoretical' changes, bolt it back together and see what happens.
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Coxyzxr
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 22 May 2008
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PostPosted: 13:07 - 25 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
chrisw wrote:

Buy a cheap engine (very cheap), strip it, make your 'theoretical' changes, bolt it back together and see what happens.


In a nutshell that's exactly what I want to do. Also thanks for the recommendation on books for further reading.
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Kickstart
The Oracle



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PostPosted: 13:09 - 25 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
chrisw wrote:
David Vizard's book on the A series engine (which is what I think Kickstart is talking about, the yellow bible...?)


Same author, but different book:-

How To Modify Your Mini

Didn't realise it was that expensive Embarassed .

Likely covers many of the same things, but also covers changes to the shell to improve aerodynamics (which will get people thinking).

All the best

Keith
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Coxyzxr
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 22 May 2008
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PostPosted: 13:14 - 25 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:

but also covers changes to the shell to improve aerodynamics (which will get people thinking).

All the best

Keith


On that note Keith it brings me onto a similar thing, check out the attached picture.

Notice the intake ports for the ram air have had some slight modding to help them to 'scoop/catch' more air in. The guys who own this bike claim it works well but this obviously isn't measurable on the Dyno.

Little things like that here and their you pickup around the place that can't really be had in books as alot is just trial and error by a few experimentalists in the field.

To be honest I've picked up a shed load of good info from Nascar tuning forums. The stuff those guys do there is old skool and usually very interesting stuff that gets you thinking.
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chrisw
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PostPosted: 13:18 - 25 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:

Same author, but different book:-


Crikey, a Mini book I don't own! I'll have to remedy that Laughing
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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 13:32 - 25 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Coxyzxr wrote:
Notice the intake ports for the ram air have had some slight modding to help them to 'scoop/catch' more air in. The guys who own this bike claim it works well but this obviously isn't measurable on the Dyno.

Little things like that here and their you pickup around the place that can't really be had in books as alot is just trial and error by a few experimentalists in the field.


Bikes are so dire for aerodynamics that improvements are likely. Possible that such a mod is working well (but could also be that it is working badly, but not screwing up the mixture set up on a dyno which didn't take the ram air effect into consideration).

All the best

Keith
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Coxyzxr
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 22 May 2008
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PostPosted: 13:41 - 25 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:
Coxyzxr wrote:
Notice the intake ports for the ram air have had some slight modding to help them to 'scoop/catch' more air in. The guys who own this bike claim it works well but this obviously isn't measurable on the Dyno.

Little things like that here and their you pickup around the place that can't really be had in books as alot is just trial and error by a few experimentalists in the field.


Bikes are so dire for aerodynamics that improvements are likely. Possible that such a mod is working well (but could also be that it is working badly, but not screwing up the mixture set up on a dyno which didn't take the ram air effect into consideration).

All the best

Keith


It's true, also to try and avoid a pocket of air which can get 'stuck' due to the speed of the air at the front of the duct which can happen with ill-designed intake scoops.

But you see my point where alot of this stuff you won't find in most literature?
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Kickstart
The Oracle



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PostPosted: 13:53 - 25 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Coxyzxr wrote:
It's true, also to try and avoid a pocket of air which can get 'stuck' due to the speed of the air at the front of the duct which can happen with ill-designed intake scoops.


Faster air means lower pressure, hence why it can prevent the flow of air

Coxyzxr wrote:
But you see my point where alot of this stuff you won't find in most literature?


Yes, although often too specialised. Bike aerodynamics are more designed with styling in mind rather than being truely slippery (the 'busa is good for a bike but looks awful and is dire compared to cars).

How about a DIY wind tunnel Laughing .

All the best

Keith
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