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traffic wardens and there authority

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mackrilld
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 11 May 2008
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PostPosted: 10:41 - 21 Nov 2008    Post subject: traffic wardens and there authority Reply with quote
Hi all this morning on my way to work i slowed down for a pelican crossing the amber light was flassing and the woman was just about finished walking across. As i come from my bike a traffic warden says to me that he has reported me for the "violation" and recons i will get 3points and a fine can he actually do that and if so he did not speak to any one and came straight over to me, is this not my word against his thanks Dom.
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Kris
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Joined: 03 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 10:46 - 21 Nov 2008    Post subject: Re: traffic wardens and there authority Reply with quote
How dare you question their authority slave!

Didn't you realise traffic wardens are now actually called Civil Enforcement Officers, and now have a much broader job description?

You scumbag. You risked a kitten, now you must pay. Evil or Very Mad

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Hetzer
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Joined: 19 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: 10:47 - 21 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is the UK mate, gestapo powers have been granted to any maggot willing to take them.
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Keir
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PostPosted: 10:51 - 21 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
i have no idea if they can do that but i would have laughed in his face anyway.
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map
Mr Calendar



Joined: 14 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: 11:08 - 21 Nov 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
From the highway code
Highway Code wrote:
196
Signal-controlled crossings

Pelican crossings. These are signal-controlled crossings where flashing amber follows the red ‘Stop’ light. You MUST stop when the red light shows. When the amber light is flashing, you MUST give way to any pedestrians on the crossing. If the amber light is flashing and there are no pedestrians on the crossing, you may proceed with caution.

[Laws ZPPPCRGD regs 23 & 26 & RTRA sect 25(5)]

So depends if the pedestrian was on the crossing.
However, your word against theirs.
Depending on their position I suspect you might have been in a better position to determine whether a person was on or off the crossing.

I wouldn't worry about it but worth checking the post for the next couple of weeks (is it the same notice period as a speeding offence?).


FWIW now there are very few places where traffic wardens come under the police (in the past they all did). If you look at the Careers Advice for Traffic Wardens it doesn't even cover directing traffic (which was also one of their powers in the past to assist the police). That's because they're just traffic enforcement people now employed by the council. As such they can only issue civil fines (aka taxes). A police officer would have to issue you with a penalty where you've broken the law (see highway code, MUST means it's the law). That's effectively what happens when you're caught speeding by a civilian scamera van operator. The police actually issue the penalty.

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mackrilld
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 11 May 2008
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PostPosted: 13:33 - 01 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
well just recived a letter asking who was driveing at the time so were do i go now as he has no proof his word agaist mine and dont want to admid i was in the wrong when i was not thanks
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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Joined: 18 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 13:37 - 01 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
mackrilld wrote:
well just recived a letter asking who was driveing at the time so were do i go now as he has no proof his word agaist mine and dont want to admid i was in the wrong when i was not thanks


Better off asking on somewhere like peppipoo. Thumbs Up

You could easily contest that one in court though if push came to shove.
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TheDonUK
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Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: 13:50 - 01 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Does the old trick work anymore?

Just say your Polish friend was riding at the time, Pavel Pudzanowski, He lives on number 1 Poland Street, Warsaw, Poland, and he has now gone back to his own country? Razz
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 13:53 - 01 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
You could just not send it back. Razz
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 01 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Last time I had a dealing with a traffic-kapo I shoved him into a bush, punched him in the face, smashed his radio (£350's worth) and threw his hat into the road. I handed his glasses back to him though (I'm nice like that). It was worth every penny of the £100 compo I had to pay for a scratched lens, and the 1-year probation was great monthly entertainment. Thumbs Up Laughing
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yen_powell
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Joined: 22 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: 14:24 - 01 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
TheDonUK wrote:
Does the old trick work anymore?

Just say your Polish friend was riding at the time, Pavel Pudzanowski, He lives on number 1 Poland Street, Warsaw, Poland, and he has now gone back to his own country? Razz
Nowadays they ask to see Mr Pudzanowski's insurance docs and if he aint insured they do you for permitting instead. That Pavel, he's a troublemaker he is......
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Tricolor Fan
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 01 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: 17:33 - 01 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
yen_powell wrote:
Nowadays they ask to see Mr Pudzanowski's insurance docs and if he aint insured they do you for permitting instead. That Pavel, he's a troublemaker he is......


I thought it wasn't* a strict liability offence. The CPS have to prove you knew or suspected Mr Pudzanowski didn't have insurance.**

*typo, honest!
**Case law has made it a little less clear cut.
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Last edited by Tricolor Fan on 18:05 - 01 Dec 2008; edited 2 times in total
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 17:44 - 01 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Why the hell did you stop for a traffic warden anyway?

I can't see how they could make anything stick on the uncorroborated oppinion of someone who isn't a police officer.

As said though, one for pepipoo.
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Peter3hg
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: 17:49 - 01 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
mackrilld wrote:
well just recived a letter asking who was driveing at the time so were do i go now as he has no proof his word agaist mine and dont want to admid i was in the wrong when i was not thanks


In the first post you said "the woman was just about finished walking across". I take it that she was then still on the crossing when you went across it? If this is the case then you are guilty as charged. Fight it if you want but you will probably just be wasting the tax-payers money.
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Hetzer
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Joined: 19 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: 17:52 - 01 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
peter3hg wrote:
Fight it if you want but you will probably just be wasting the tax-payers money.


Oh well, at least it wouldn't be billions to cvnt bankers. And for a better cause too.
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yen_powell
World Chat Champion



Joined: 22 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: 17:58 - 01 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tricolor Fan wrote:
yen_powell wrote:
Nowadays they ask to see Mr Pudzanowski's insurance docs and if he aint insured they do you for permitting instead. That Pavel, he's a troublemaker he is......


I thought it was a strict liability offence. The CPS have to prove you knew or suspected Mr Pudzanowski didn't have insurance.*

*Case law has made it a little less clear cut.
Because you have named someone as driver you then either have to show he was insured or stand up in court and say he took the vehicle without your consent. Next thing you know you're deciding that soap is a luxury that some other bugger can pick up off the shower floor....... Embarassed
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baby_gal
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Joined: 21 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: 18:01 - 01 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
I thought it was a strict liability offence. The CPS have to prove you knew or suspected Mr Pudzanowski didn't have insurance.*


Strict liability offences (speeding, selling alcohol to an underage person) are those where they don't have to prove you knew you were committing a criminal act. You are guilty even if you truly believed you were in the right (eg your speedo said you were under 30mph or a fake ID was used to get the alcohol).

I'm not sure whether or not mackrilld's "offence" is strict liability but looking at the highway code it says
Quote:
you must give way to any pedestrians on the crossing
which does not suggest to me that they have to be off the crossing... just that they must be allowed to cross Confused

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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 18:08 - 01 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi

Get onto someone with decent legal knowledge.

You could read the regulations that as you didn't run over them that, despite crossing on a flashing amber, you did accord them priority.

All the best

Keith
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Tricolor Fan
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 01 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: 18:10 - 01 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
baby_gal wrote:
Quote:
I thought it was a strict liability offence. The CPS have to prove you knew or suspected Mr Pudzanowski didn't have insurance.*


Strict liability offences (speeding, selling alcohol to an underage person) are those where they don't have to prove you knew you were committing a criminal act. You are guilty even if you truly believed you were in the right (eg your speedo said you were under 30mph or a fake ID was used to get the alcohol).


'twas a typo, honest!

I know someone who was interviewed by the police and made to think it was an a strict liability offence. Caused a lot of hassle in court.
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baby_gal
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Joined: 21 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: 18:20 - 01 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:
Get onto someone with decent legal knowledge.

Agreed.. I know my mix of legal knowledge is from A-Level Law (what I remember of it) and t'internet so not really reliable.

If you cant afford the 3 points I'd be inclined to fight it, but the cost of the fighting might come to more than a fine would have cost you in the first place.

GL with it Thumbs Up
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TheDonUK
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Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: 18:28 - 01 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
yen_powell wrote:

Because you have named someone as driver you then either have to show he was insured or stand up in court and say he took the vehicle without your consent. Next thing you know you're deciding that soap is a luxury that some other bugger can pick up off the shower floor....... Embarassed


Using the following scenario, 6 months ago someone you trusted wanted to borrow your bike/car, at the time they showed you a valid licence and insurance documents, there was no ability to make copies at the time. You now have no knowledge as to the whereabouts of said someone. Can you be prosecuted for that? Shocked

When i was a kid i vaguely remember a concept of innocent untill Proven guilty...
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Tricolor Fan
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 01 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: 18:47 - 01 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Have a gander at the The Pelican Pedestrian Crossings Regulations and General Directions 1987 and related legislation
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 18:49 - 01 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
TheDonUK wrote:

When i was a kid i vaguely remember a concept of innocent untill Proven guilty...

Times have changed.

(Or, more reasonably; that was a belief to be held along with Father Christmass and the Easter bunny!)
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Dom_
Points Mean Prizes



Joined: 02 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: 19:02 - 01 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
You weren't even riding your bike that day, must be a cloned plate.
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tinfoilhat
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Joined: 29 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: 19:15 - 01 Dec 2008    Post subject: Reply with quote
Reply "Don't know what you're on about" or "send me a copy of the video and I'll help to identify the rider".

Anyway, was the letter addressed using capital letters for the whole of the name, like....MR TINFOIL HAT. Or was it address to a human, like.. Mr Tinfoil Hat ?
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