Rent and the 21st century Serf

[TheDonUK]

So i have a essay deadline on thursday which has predictably lead me into my usual cycle of procrastination, this time my thoughts wondering towards the £450 cash i have sitting in my drawer which i am supposed to pay my landlord tomorow.

I mean its not a tiny sum of money to someone like me and it seems landlords have to do so little to "earn" what they do.

Is it just a sound investment, buy to let (ignoring the current financial events), or is it something more sinister, am i just a 21st century serf?

I mean im not actually working at the moment and im living from one student loan payment to the other, but roughly, rent alone without bills costs me near all of my income, what little i have left goes on food and my bike, the only reason i am able to keep my head above water is due a sideline playing poker when im not at uni.

So i ask you BCF reader, what is your opinion on the concept of "rent" or even a mortgage for that matter, can a person be "free" without outright ownership of their own home?

I suppose an alternative which is becoming increasingly attractive to me is the idea of living off the grid as it were, self sufficiency, i.e moving to the canadian wilderness with an amount of capital that would be enough to buy/build a basic cabin/ small house and then having little to no overheads.

I dont know if this post has a point or not, its just each month when it comes time to pay my owner... i mean landlord i am always staggered at how much money i am paying and how little i receive for it...

I suppose i should move away from london and stop complaining though...

Please feel free to share any thoughts on the subject...
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[Current Bikes - GSXR-750 K5 & C90-97 ] [Previous Bikes: Runner 125, YBR 125, GS500, Bandit 600, Hornet 600, ZX6R-99, C90-99, R1-99, XT600E-04, GSXR-750 K4, CRF250L '16]

[Skudd]

Mud hut in Wales sounds ok. buit don't use any facilities that you have not paid or bartered for,
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[Itchy]

Maybe you should visit Housepricecrash.co.uk , they often have rants about rents being unrealistic and a form of indenture....

I feel too that rents are an indenture on the modern person, and a symptom yet again of the baby boomers gouging and sucking the blood of the young, it will all blow up in their faces though as young people are increasing mobile and will move away.

But I think the problem is UK culture in that people accept the Hobsons choice , ie get raped on a mortgage or get raped by rent in that my experience with Germany the tenancy agreements never locked you in for more than a few months, rents (I am talking about 5 years ago though) were lower lots lower , and so you'd earn €900 Euros a month but you'd pay €250-300 Euros a month rent , 1/3 or 1/2, I've found that in the UK its often half or more...

Ditto with other places like Hong Kong you can rent a bed sit type flat in the center of Kowloon for £9 a day , bigger than the bedsit I lived in in Haringhey.....


However Germany and HK have both had their house price crashes and their housing bubbles have already occured.
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[SoND]

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=150026

^- There's an interesting rant someone had about rent that I posted up a while ago. Can't remember what exactly he came out with but thought it was worth a read.
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[ncrn]

You say how little you receive but really from it you get a (I'm presuming) stable roof over your head, electricity water gas heating, all the comforts you want really. Like you I'm a student and yeah its damn expensive (I wish I was good at poker so I wouldn't have to rely on my parents for support).

Thing I think about is when I'm earning I can pay for my own place, and yeah it will take a damn long time to pay it all off unless I start earning big, but it just depends how materialistic you are. If you could be happy with very little then you don't really need a lot of money. I enjoy things that cost money so I couldn't live a simple life.

But yeah I do agree with you rent is damn expensive, between 6 of us we pay out £25,000 in a year just to live in a decent area.. and to be honest we get a fair bit for it, but not enough to justify the money.

Shame a bank wouldn't commission the 6 of us for a mortgage, that way we could get our money back at the end of uni..
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[colin1]

The cost of living around London is high because there is opportunities for earning.

If you can move somewhere with similar opportunities for earning for you, but with a lower cost of living do so.

Living 'off the grid' is a bit of a cop out.

Human's are a lot like ants, we work together in our societies. A single ant alone wouldnt amount to much, but together, they are quite a force.

Get a marketable skill and you will be of use to your fellow humans and society, and you will earn a decent wage.

Obviously, the more in demand your skill is, the better the wage.

Running away from the modern world is a cop out.

Finding a balance between work and leisure, solitude and company, is worth doing.

I have a cousin who went off to live on the isle of skye for a few years, for simpler living. She got bored and now lives in Edinburgh.

I have a sister who lived in Barcelona for a few years, and Brazil for a few years. She said she would never live in England again. She has realised that if she wants a go at an interesting career, she has to try to gain a skill. One of the best places to do that is England, so she is back here.

How about best of both worlds, work part time in the city, and escape off to the countryside at weekends.
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[Itchy]

I think part of the problem is gigantic mortgages in that while you see £450 go into his pocket, I bet a very big chunk of that goes off to pay the mortgage or the interest on the mortgage.....

I've always said multiple times that why do people think high house prices are a good thing?:


Are high petrol prices a good thing?

Are high food prices a good thing?

Are high taxes a good thing?

Are transport costs a good thing?

The obvious answer to the above is no, so why are house price increases deemed to be a good thing? , when they indenture people so heavily....

Its all a filter as Kickstart puts it in that high costs means price rises filter down into everything, because everything costs so much you need (not want need) higher wages , but higher wages are snatched by higher taxes and thus everything ends up costing more than it normally would.
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Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

[TheDonUK]

Itchy, I dont dare even visit that website untill my essay deadline has passed, but i will check it out in due time

EDIT: Im quite sure most of it goes on his mortgage, but either way what is it that he is actually doing to justify the money? is it just that he holds the deed of ownership?

Sond, I remeber reading that thread at the time now you bring it up, and i agree with alot of the points, i dont think i could go as far as the author, even if that does mean i am forever crushed under the boot of rent...

ncrn, What i get is a one bedroom flat that i share with my girlfriend in a nice area of london, the roof is not particuarly stable, and when it rains hard the windows leek, oh and i was washing the dishes up yesterday when i got a knock on the door, due to the piss poor plumbing and general cowboy standard of workmen my landlord uses my neighbours ceiling was flooding, that was sorted today, but electricity and gas are not included, neither is council tax with my girlfriend has to pay...

I wouldent really complain if the rent was a reasonable percentage of my income, i think 25/30% is about right

Colin: i accept what you are saying, supposedly there are more opportunities in the capital, and supposedly i am at uni getting marketable qualifications (if it can be considered a skill thats another debate)

But i dont buy that living off the grid is a cop-out, it is certainly a rejection of society's norms, but i dont really want much to do with society (granted things like the NHS are usefull when needed).

I dont know if im just becoming more disillusioned with everything but solitude and the hermit lifestyle appeal more and more to me,

Oh by the way i have an uncle who like your cousin moved up to the scottish highlands, brought a patch of land, build a kit house and had literally something like £19 a month overheads, growing his own food etc, he had his own forrest on his land so an abundant supply of logs for heating etc. After a year or too he got bored and sold up (for a profit i might add), but then hes an aging lothario who couldent handle the lack of women up there, i think i am made of stronger stuff.

Thanks for the replies, im not going to try and say i have the answer now ill just read what you all have to say on the subject and keep pondering...
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[Current Bikes - GSXR-750 K5 & C90-97 ] [Previous Bikes: Runner 125, YBR 125, GS500, Bandit 600, Hornet 600, ZX6R-99, C90-99, R1-99, XT600E-04, GSXR-750 K4, CRF250L '16]

[Tonka]

Perhaps another point to bear in mind is that an alarming number of people have 'bought' their homes with Interest Only Mortgages and seem to be quite smug at allegedly being on the property ladder when in reality they are merely 'renting' from their mortgage lender.

At least when you rent you have limited your unforeseen expenses, as there will be no dipping into your pocket for repairs to the property, heating systems etc. You also have the benefit of not being restricted to where or how you live - you live to your means and, within reason, your rent increases are limited by law. Should you wish to move for work or on a whim, you hand in your notice, pack your bag and start somewhere new, without worrying about selling and purchasing or even renting out.

People tend to be very choosy about the property they rent, but often overlook their choice of Landlord. A good Landlord is like a good Tenant, essential if the relationship is going to work happily. You pay your rent on time and treat the property with respect, your Landlord in return keeps the property up together and respects your right to a safe and comfortable home

HTH
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[ncrn]

I take it you went through a landlord rather than an agency?

I went with an agency, it costs more but when our boiler packed in we got a brand new one (of a cost of around £1300) within a few days installed.

I don't know if I'd be so confident with a landlord only situation.
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[TheDonUK]

Yea directly with the landlord, found the place on gumtree ,

I suppose there is less security but in my mind i always just think if you mess me around ill burn everything you own to the ground... Mind you it would probably net him a profit assuming he has insurance...
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[Current Bikes - GSXR-750 K5 & C90-97 ] [Previous Bikes: Runner 125, YBR 125, GS500, Bandit 600, Hornet 600, ZX6R-99, C90-99, R1-99, XT600E-04, GSXR-750 K4, CRF250L '16]

[LeeR]

I've had a very good experience with my landlady for the last 8 years. We moved to Gloucester in 2000 after I graduated, and found a 3 bed detached house on a quiet estate with integral garage, parking for 4 cars and central heating for £490 pcm.

Our landlady and her husband are tenant farmers, so they appreciate our situation, they purchased the house for £88K in '92 and felt they'd paid over the odds.

Initially we went via an estate agent, and they took £75 pcm from the rent.

After a year or so the landlady's accountant suggested increasing the rent, I proposed paying her by standing order direct into her bank account cutting out the estate agent. She agreed and ended up £75 pcm better off, we avoided a rise.

In the last 8 years she has fitted double-glazing, a new bathroom, a new kitchen, a new gas boiler, carpets in the hall/stairs/landing, and in the lounge (my only gripe is the lounge carpet would've benefitted from a better underlay, and if she'd asked I'd have paid for it). She also removed some rather dangerous sliding glass doors that divided the dining room and lounge. The gas boiler is serviced annually as part of a package she has with British Gas, sadly there is no gas fire.

We own all the furnishing and major appliances, I've fitted the garage with shelving, boarded most of the loft, keep the gardens, and have decorated throughout, some rooms twice, and fitted a carpet and underlay in the box room over the garage as it was too cold.

A few months ago she came around to finally discuss a rent increase, the first in 8 years, we shook hands on £575 pcm I don't think that was too bad as £600 would have been closer to market rates at the time.

I have no intention of moving, I still can't afford to buy, we look after the house and she looks after us. As far as I can see we've built a mutally benefical relationship based on trust, I personally hope it will continue.
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[c_dug]

*im not sure this post makes much sence or really replys to the original post but here it is anyway*


Hmmm, Im 18, on crap wages (<£13000) with £0 savings, i pay £390PCM for a small (appx. 3.5mx4.5m) room in a shared house, which includes all the utility bills plus a fast wireless internet connection.

To most people it sounds cheap, or so im told, i pay half my wages on rent and the other half on travel to work and food for the month plus mayby £50 on going out.

I know i could have gotten a better deal but the location is perfect for me and i had a very good feeling about the landlord when i first met him, i was right about him, and the other people in the house are cool so all in all im happy.

I didnt really have much say in me moving out, i was pretty much told that i was going but i think im glad it happened, it made me learn to stand on my own two feet, i have an application with the surry fire brigade going through at the moment so if that goes well ill probably look at moving into a similar arrangement in surry.

c_dug
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