BASIC 2 STROKE OIL QUESTION

[stirlinggaz]

Hi all,
firstly apologies for such a newbie question, i have my own opinion on this, but thought i would ask on here to settle an argument.
can a bottle of 2 stroke oil, which is labelled as "PRE-MIX fully synthetic" be used in a bike with an oil pump?
or is it solely for use in a bike, where you mix up the fuel & oil to correct ratio & pour into the petrol tank, not using an oil pump?
i know the oils marketed as for injector systems (oil pump) can be used as a pre-mix, but can it be done the other way round?
is the pre-mix stuff too thick to go through the oil pump/injector?
the oil in question is ROCK OIL RACING SYNTHESIS 2 PRE-MIX.fully synthetic
cheers,
GAZ

[hmmmnz]

yep can be used in an oil pump type,
it does thing at the end of the day, weither it gets mixed before the carb or at the carb
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[stirlinggaz]

hi,
isnt pre-mix stuff thicker/slower running than the injector stuff?
it certainly looks thicker.
i was thinking it may well be ok, but the thicker oil wouldnt flow as quickly, leading to more chance of seizure or oil pump failure.
no?
if not, then why does the same company produce 2 different types of fully synthetic oil? is this just marketing?
they do a synthesis 2 racing pre-mix
& a synthesis 2 racing injector. both approx the same price.
the pre-mix seems to be a thicker oil. & it certainly seems thicker than TTS , which is what i would normally use.
hope that makes sense, lol
cheers,
GAZ

[hmmmnz]

you may well be right, the tts 2 stroke oil i use can be used as either pre mix or through the pump,
may be thats just castrol,
get the stuff that can be used on the pump, atleast that way you can still use as a pre mix if you desire,
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[sumpgard]

most 2 stroke oils for pre mix are twice as thick as for auto lube i would not recomend using any thing for your bike unless it states on the bottle sutable fore auto lube i use alot of pre mix fuel for motocross bikes the oil takes hell of alot of mixing as the oil is like syrup

[stirlinggaz]

hi,
& thank you sumpgard.
you have confirmed what i was thinking.
my local , respected,supposedly expert motorcycle mechanic workshop guy is an idiot.
i went in & asked for some lite gear oil, no probs.
i then asked for some 2stroke oil,
he then asks "pre mix?" to which i reply, its auto-lobe & has an oil pump.
he then asks (with a puzzled look on his face) what bike its for, i then explained its for a gamma, he then looks puzzled & asks if its pre-mix!
i explain it has an oil pump, he then asks if it has a seperate oil tank & of course i replied "yes it has a seperate 2t oil tank" by this time getting a bit concerned, as this guy has had the longest running bike workshop in my town (actually only one of 2 & until recently had the monopoly)& is supposed to know "everything" about bikes.
he then goes "this is the stuff" & he hands it to his missus to bag up & off i go.
bear in mind the injector stuff & the pre-mix stuff DO look very similar, packaging wise, but i did notice the words "pre mix " in black letters & asked if he was sure that this was the right stuff, to which he gave me a rather disdainful look & grunted something along the lines of "of course it is" & made me feel kinda stupid for asking.
im planning on re-building the bike in the morn & was getting all my tools ready, along with the oil, coolant etc,.
this is when i noticed how thick the oil is, through the sight glass bit on the bottle, so i compared it to the tts.
i've now looked on the rock oil site & they do sell a 2t for injector systems!
genuine mistake? or stupidity?
cheers,
GAZ

[Blau Zedong]

Sounds like utter stupidity. Oils designed for premix only use are much thicker and have diluent properties to help keep them in solution when they are mixed with petrol.

If your mechanic doesn't appreciate the difference between automatic oiling and premix he should be shot.
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[mad4it028]

if you use none premix it will seperrate over time ie 1 layer of petrol and 1 layer of oil not good as you end up running neat petrol premix oil is thicker and as such no good for oil pumps hth
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[stirlinggaz]

Hi,
& thanks guys, thats exactly what i had thought.
but this "expert" has a bit of an atitude towards 2 strokes anyway, in that he refuses to work on them! (if there over 5 yrs old)
i remember going in for gear oil for my rs & quoted straight from the manual, synthetic 75/90 or whatever it was & he laughed at me & said there was no such thing!
then told me to put mineral 10w/40 engine oil in it! saying synthetic gear oil was no good for the gearbox!
think the guy has a vendetta against 2 strokes.
only problem is, there a load of young kids around here with there nsr's & rs's along with there 2t peds & if any of them take his advice (seeing as there pretty much forced to take there bikes to him, as hes 1 of only 2 mechanics in the city!) there gonna have problems.
this a long established, well respected motorbike workshop by the way!
i wont be using him again, only reason i did was it was closer than halfrauds, but least in there if they dont know what there talking about, they say so & try to find out on there computer!
think i'll go the further 1/4 mile in future.
cheers,
GAZ

[MarJay]

I'm certain that Stinkwheel or someone went through this before on this very forum. As I recall you can use auto lube 2T oil in pre mix fuel, but you CANNOT use pre mix only in an autolube bike. From what I remember the thickness of premix only oil prevents it from being pumped properly into the bike and so the bike will be under lubricated and seize.

Bad idea.
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[pedey6664kirs...]

wot i do to prevent seizing is run auto lube 2t oil for the pump but i also add premix 2t oil to the petty tank then if oil pump stops working for any reason i'm still cover althought it does get bit smokey lol

the prevention is sometimes better then the cure lol

[MarJay]

[chillpill]

i know that auto-lube stuff can be used as premix , all the ped bois do it remove the crank driven oil pump and autolube it for a teeny bit more speed

owner of the shop sound slike a wanker , get him to swap the oil for the right stuff and give the nob a bollocking while your at it

[chillpill]

[Blue_SV650S]

[Blau Zedong]

[The Artist]

no chillpill, lean.

with more oil going into the engine than required, it is taking up space which could be used by petrol.

This means the ratio of petrol:air is leaner, e.g. more air than required for that amount of petrol going in.

[MarJay]

[stevo as b4]

Yeah the oil -fuel ratio becomes richer, but the air to fuel ratio becomes leaner. Both conditions are to be avoided if you want a 2stroke engine to be reliable for a long time!

[chillpill]

lol learn something new everyday

[stirlinggaz]

hi,
unfortunately in my eagerness to see if the oil was indeed as thick as i thought,i opened it.
probably wont take it back now,
no matter,
lesson learned.
guys a cunt.
cheers,
GAZ

[pedey6664kirs...]

[stirlinggaz]

hi,
i know i can use pre-mix in the petrol tank, used to do it years ago befiore pumps were common.
but the guy who sold me the oil, sold it with the specific purpose of putting into a seperate oil tank & for running through the pump.
that makes him a cunt.
if he had said just sick some of this in the fuel tank & blank the fuel pump off (& the cylinder intake), fine. & if i had wanted to go back to measuring rarios of 33: 1 or 40:1 or whatever, them i wouldnt have a problem.
but i have plenty of faith in the gammas oil pump & when it was tested with tts, it pumped out pretty close to the specified amount.
so i have no need to add further oil into the petrol tank & i certainly aint adding it to the 2t tank, as i dont think the gammas little pump would be able to cope with the viscosity (sp) & seizure would no doubt be quite soon in coming.
do you think that,if i had done what he suggested & had filled up the oil tank with this stuff & if i had any problems with seizure or whatever,he would have admitted responsibilty?
cheers,
GAZ

[Blue_SV650S]

So ... what you gonna do with the oil?!?!
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