V Twin or in line 4?

[Nicky-Jano]

Heya sorry if this has been asked before but it's been niggling at me for a bit now.
I've been riding for 2 years, 1 and a half of which was on a CG 125, and in October I had my first big off on my CB 400 SF.
About a week ago it was put back on the road and I've been riding it and getting used to it again, problem is I sort of dislike where the power comes in and I'm not sure whether that's down to nerves (cause of the crash was not being used to where the power kicks in) or because I am used to the CG's same power all the way through the rev range.
My main dislike is the biting point at around 6 to 7 rpm and if I go near that when I'm going around a corner I can feel it really wanting to go for it and it just makes me nervous/irritated.
Also to get any sort of power to overtake I constantly have to be in the higher revs and when it's like that it feels like it's constantly on a biting point.
So to really enjoy my bike I'm constantly bogging down the engine riding at 3 to 4 rpm in 6th gear, then when you twist back the throttle it feels like a quiet kind of power and I enjoy it more as it's smoother and more controlled rather than jerky like a thorougbred horse or something.
I know twins are different with their power, their more torquey so the power is there all the way through the rev range and no hidden suprises.
I'd like to know other people's opinions or experiences on this.
I could be nervous and with more riding I'll enjoy it and maybe love it but right now...
Maybe I could be more suited to a twin or single?
I could just be being a baby though .

[G]

The wrong person to answer your question first probably...
You're asking the wrong question .

If you want an 'easier to ride' bike with more low-down power, go for a bigger cc one.

A similar 400 twin geared the same as yours will probably be worse.

My 652cc single doesn't pull as well as my 900cc four from low down in high gears. The single is actually geared lower, it's just missing out on power, basically.

Oh and yes, you're being a baby or there's a problem with your bike. I didn't find it a problem riding an RS250 on 'daily' duties.
Oh and it's 'coming into the powerband', not 'the biting point' (which refers to clutches) .

[Flip]

Sounds like you're still nervous tbh mate. The safest way to corner (on bends) is with the needle halfway through the rev counter. You've got more contro over the bikel that way.

[Nicky-Jano]

I do like the low down power, when it's in a higher gear and low rpm it feels so much nicer than when I'm in the power band.
Don't get me wrong I like it when I'm taking off and having a mini race with the other half but riding around town etc, It feels like it's getting somewhere faster than I'd like if I stay in lower gears, if I'm in a higher gear it's obviously slower to accelerate.
Think I've just answered my question , being a bit of a baby and will hopefully get over it .

[G]

Remember, just because you've got power, doesn't mean you have to use it!.. you can still keep it in a decent gear without going all-out, though this can seem counter intuitive.
A smoother right hand would presumably help in the corners too.

[Flip]

[craigs23]

Within time and experience, you'll get used to it, to the point when you're bouncing the tacho needle off the limiter, you'd wonder what all the fuss was about.

Have you been riding it long? It takes anyone time to adapt to riding a new bike and learn its characteristics and foibles.

Different engines will obviously give different characteristics - even the same engine types can differ between manufacturers. A twin might not be the answer, you're coming from a bike with no power (no offence) to one that develops some noticeable horses (even a bigger cc single will give you wheelie inducing oomph that can be disconcerting if you're not used to it) so it's natural that you'll need time to adjust.

In the meantime, just take it at your own pace. You've already identified where the power changes in the rev range - use the gearing to either utilise or avoid whether you want to use this.

[Nicky-Jano]

[moog]

What I'd do, right, is I'd knock it down a couple of gears till it was over the point in the rev range where the power comes in, go round the corner and then nail it out with the bike already in the power. Used to do this regularly on my GPZ500 as I got fed up with cornering below 7000rpm and then having to change down exiting corners to get into the power.

It's only 33bhp after all...what are you worried about.
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[G]

Is your bike actually restricted at the moment? - wonder if that could be causing some problems, though it usually dumbs down power delivery.
The only bike I've found I couldn't ride smoothly through the powerband was a race KR1S which half the time had the powervalve stuck open.
Even the aforementioned RS250 which should be much 'worse' than the CB400 was fine with a gentle hand.
(My 675 can feel a little unsettling when getting on the throttle and properly cranked over on track, but that's more the FI.)

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[Nicky-Jano]

The bike is restricted.
I think it handled it quite well, though when Ram rode it he thought there was something wrong with it as it felt so flat (first time he'd been on it since restriction).
It also seems to be guzzling fuel, despite doing the same miles when we had to fill up the TL needed less fuel put back in .
I loved the bike before but coming off was scary expecially because it was completely my fault.
The weather and road conditions are probably not helping the feel of the bike either.

[LimehouseCBF]

I have a honda hornet 600 '98 which is fun, my mate has a yamaha TDM 900, both very evenly matched just different though the gear changes. his v twin is much more torque but mine will out accelerate when riding though the gears, pretty much will get to same point at the same time.

i think its more to do with how you use it, tdm is very good for commuting every day, as a touring bike has that extra torque (and sounds like a beast) the hornet is good because its a weekend bike - has about 100 mile limit before i have to switch to reserve - very annoying. probably both similar fuel consumption but bigger bikes have bigger tanks usually and thats always a plus because i hate stripping at the petrol station
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[Tango675]

Maybe it may be worth switching to an SV650, ER6, or CB500?

The SV and the CB have been about for a bit so you should be able to pick up a decent one.

The engines in these bikes are in a very low state of tune and therefore produce very linear power. All are very novice friendly and are easy to restrict.

I am willing to bet that the even the CB500 makes more power at 3-4K rpm than a CB400, so will feel more responsive and happier to "chug" out of a corner.

The CB400 is quite a highly tuned engine so will always be a bit peaky, however it does sound like the restriction has been botched on your bike. It maybe worth getting the bike properly set up at a Dyno.

I would also recommend some further training before you decide to swap the bike. This is probably going to be more useful in building your confidence. Contact your local IAM and see when the next free assessment day is or, find out when the next Bikesafe day is(usually run by your local council). They are there to help and will make a positive difference to your confidence and your riding.
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[G]

It's interesting that someone else described the bike as 'flat' - I wonder if it is more that you're just getting used to the power. It's possible that a bike with more power available lower down may even be worse.
Comparing a 33hp SV650 to a 33hp R6 I'd actually say there didn't seem much difference in the engine; however the R6 doesn't feel as good because it's got a fair bit higher gearing as standard, so naturally you change up out of first after pulling away and get less power, despite you're now in a gear with a similar top speed as maybe third or fourth on the SV, so it feels slow.

[craigs23]

[TheDonUK]

Does sound like a 500 would suit him better now than a V-twin or an IL4.

Get yourself a Nice CB500/GS500m there is no real "powerband" it pulls pretty consistantly to about 85mph then will chug up to 110 given enough room,
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[Current Bikes - GSXR-750 K5 & C90-97 ] [Previous Bikes: Runner 125, YBR 125, GS500, Bandit 600, Hornet 600, ZX6R-99, C90-99, R1-99, XT600E-04, GSXR-750 K4, CRF250L '16]

[Legsy.]

I own a CB400 SF (unrestricted), and yeah the power doesn't really come in until 7000rpm, however it's not exactly a handful.

[Blau Zedong]

Have to agree, the power delivery is very soft - should be moreso when restricted. You just need to hone your skills and confidence.
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[chris-red]

[Tango675]

[G]

While your point is not relating to the one I was making (which was that high revving/more cylinders does not mean less low down power), I also disagree with it, from having ridden both bikes mentioned .

To illustrate the point, a couple of dyno graphs, though I couldn't find one for the CB500, so a GS500 will have to do:
R6:
https://www.hardracing.com/images/micron06R6dyno.jpg
Yes, it does have a point around 10k where the power dips then raises, but that seems more like a fueling issue...

GS500
https://mota.no.sapo.pt/bikes/GS500E/dyno1_big.jpg
And the GS500 actually has a similar dip in power (on the stock graph) which then goes to a steeper increase in power.

However I suspect it's more noticeable on the R6 just because it has more power. Oddly enough, if you chopped out both graphs and compared them rev for rev (ignoring the R6 top end), they are both quite similar, though the R6 has more power at any revs.

The 'kick' you get from the R6 is more of a 'feel' kinda thing from having more power I reckon; a CBR250 feels pretty smooth in the way it makes power to me, despite having a very revvy/peaky nature.
Which goes on to suggest the 'hit' she's worried about may just be not being used to having more power (I can remember the KLR650 I had as a first big bike seeming like a scary missile!)

An actually pretty 'peaky' powergraph for comparison:
https://www.maroon.dti.ne.jp/j-gamma/jpeg/special-rg/Anraku_Power-1.jpg

[lukamon]

take the red powerband out and put a blue (more relaxed) one in, should help the power deivery
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[Tango675]

I claim witchcraft on behalf of the Yamaha (and the use of variable height inlet trumpets and Fuel injection trickery)!

The Suzuki's 4 Valve Per cylinder head would also make a difference as the Honda uses a 2 value head.

If you take a 8 Value IL4 and compare it against a 16V IL4 you can see what I am trying to get at. I also think the amount of torque and where it is produced plays a part in the way the bikes ride.

To get more power per CC you have to raise the RPM's and that will change the amount of torque that is procuced and where it is generated in the rev range. Its the reason Honda love to VTEC everything. It allows the use of two cam profiles, one for lots of low down grunt and one for lots of top end power.

Todays engines can use "black magic" to improve an engines performace throughout the rev range, everything from valves in the exaust, forced induction and fuel injection wizardary, but the fact is a nice big combustion chamber lends itself to producing lots of torque and a smaller combustion chamber lends itself to a higher gas flow and more power.

If this was not the case we would all have simple single cylinder engines with different cams and timings for all applications.

EDIT:

A link with a better explanation of the "Torque and Horsepower" thag than I could ever write https://vettenet.org/torquehp.html

[Noxious89123]