Daytona 955i or SV1000s? Or another alternative?

[slightlytasty]

I'm wanting to upgrade from my SV650 to a liter bike. I don't want a sports 600 because I've got used to having torque ready at my disposal. I commute 50 miles a day and have ridden 16000 miles last year.

I have up to £2500 to spend. I want reliability and reasonable economy (nothing Italian). I prefer sports riding positions to upright so I can get the power down - no nakeds.

Everyone likes Fazer 1000s but I can't get away with their looks. I don't want a supersport like an old fireblade or something - too much to insure, too stiff and too much performance for all the twisty Yorkshire moor roads I ride.

Considered VFR's but I don't want something that heavy - still needs to be a nimble handler. Ideal bike could be a Daytona 675. Rode my bro's and it was superb. But I won't get one for under £4k.
____________________
Own Aprilia RSV and 955i Speed Triple and 2002 FZS600, had Bandit 650, SV650S, GPZ500S, DR650

[MarJay]

Both the 955i and the SV are quite heavy... they certainly would be similar to a VFR750. The 955i is also fairly hard and is not ideal for the yorkshire roads.

I'd say you need something like a Daytona 600 or something like that. Not as small or uncomfortable as a 675, but quick and sporty, with suspension that is designed for UK roads, not Japanese or Italian ones.

The SV is a good bike, but its not in the same league as the 955i. It has a fair chunk of power, but it is still a budget bike. The suspension isn't all that, and a lot of people say that the engine has been neutered in that bike.

I would guess that you want a smaller bike like a 600 if you want sharp turning and plush suspension. You aren't going to get a litre bike in your budget that is as sharp turning as you want... and as for torque - just turn the throttle more, or drop the gearing. (Oh no, I'm sounding like G!! )

I have a Triumph Speed Four. It cost me £2000 and it is supposed to be 'detuned' for midrange. It might just be me, but it feels a lot less peaky than my old TT600, and I've never had an issue with midrange. This is coming from a Fireblade. I would strongly suggest against getting a litre bike too soon. I got a 955i after I had an SV650, and it was a great bike, but it doesn't sound like it meets your needs. I then had two TT600's, a Buell XB12R, a VFR400 and a 2002 954 Blade. The only bike I really regret buying was the blade. Its was just too much for the road and too much for me. It was too sharp, and too quick. I always felt on edge when I was riding it and I could never relax into it. The Speed four is the total opposite. It flatters my riding style, it can go slowly if you want, and it can go stupidly fast if you want. It handles amazingly well without feeling like its on edge, and it has soft enough suspension to cope with bumpy roads. It really is a good bike.

The only bike I really regret selling is the Buell. I would suggest one of those, but I doubt you'd get one for the money. I suppose you could get an older tube framed lighning or cyclone for that. If you really want that V twin shove, great handling and a fantastic noise then I'd suggest a Buell - specifically an air cooled fuel frame bike like a XB12R or XB12S, but I think the only ones you'll find in your budget would be too heavy for what you want. The 'Tubers' as they are called are about 210kg dry, whereas the 'fuellers' are about 170kg dry.

I understand your dilemma, and it was one that I was in after I sold my SV, but to be honest the power delivery of an SV isn't that different to that of a sports 600, its just the sports 600 has the top end to go with it. If you want a real V twin, then IMO, you need a Buell.

Plus, its easier to get the power down on an upright bike IMO, clip ons are for cornering... bars are for hooliganism!
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Seb]

You could get a TL1000R for 2500 no problem. Is it going to be garaged? If so dont rule out an old Millie either, the engine is utterly dependable, it's the electrics you've got to watch out for, keep the battery topped up and avoid storing it in the damp and it'll likely be fine.
____________________
2010 Triumph 1050 Sprint ST

[MarJay]

[Seb]

Ah fair deal, didn't spot the shorty bit, the millie seat is pretty lofty
____________________
2010 Triumph 1050 Sprint ST

[MarJay]

[Dr. DaveJPS]

or could go for a falco....? or a daytona 650 over the 600...
____________________
"intelligent inattention is preferable to unintelligent tinkering"
www.davejps.com

[G]

Odd that you say you don't want a 600, then later say one would be ideal for you . If you like the 675, have a look at the Kawasaki 636 B model.

You do realise that most sports 600s have at least as much if not more torque than an SV650? They are higher geared however, but if you just limited yourself to the first four gears (about the same speed range as the SV) you'll have more go everywhere I reckon.

Anyway, if you want a sports bike with a 'real' sports riding position, it's going to be a superbike (technically supersports is 600cc).

[slightlytasty]

I'v borrowed an r6 and a hornet 600 and it's true that they do have the same torque, but you definitely have to work a lot harder to find it. This is fine when I'm on a weekend blast but most of my riding is going to work and back.

The instant shove of the SV without having to drop gears is excellent for quick overtakes - as soon as i see a gap in oncoming traffic I have the power I need. I guess that I would soon learn to adjust my riding style to suit an IL4, I just never feel as relaxed on them. No doubt due to the fact I now know the SV inside and out after doing 12000 miles on it in the last 8 months! However it is just too short on top end power and it is time to upgrade.

I'm not short - 5'11" but only 12 stone. My main worry about getting a heavy bike is if I have to tighten my line in an emergency and not having the weight to make a 200kg+ bike react as fast.

Do the Triumph 600 and 650 ride well? I've read the injection is jerky. Also is Triumph build quality as good as the Japs? I do love the triples blend of torque and power and it sounds great. I am a bit nervous of the 955i being just too powerful. I like to really use a bike to its full potential - not just use half of its ability.
____________________
Own Aprilia RSV and 955i Speed Triple and 2002 FZS600, had Bandit 650, SV650S, GPZ500S, DR650

[slightlytasty]

[G]

I suspect with the r6 the issue is more that it's higher geared.
As standard an SV is designed for a theoretical top speed of 130 or so, while the r6 maybe 175 with standard gearing.
However the R6 is particularly revvy and the hornet just a bit damp.

I've had several SV650s and if you leave it in top gear I'd say you get far from 'instant punch'. I'd definitely say my old (J2) ZX6 was better.
However, it's not going to be great at slower speeds in a very high top gear; but you're only really going to get that with a bike stupidly powerful in the first place.
Thus my suggestion you get a sports 600, but don't take it above 4th. That way you probably get more 'instant punch' than the SV without dropping down gears and still have the same top speed .

The triumph 600 isn't a good choice if you want a chunky midrange I'd say, thus the suggestion you look at a 636. Haven't ridden a 650 myself; you do realise they're all four cylinder bikes?

As an idea of the 675 vs other current bikes, have a look at this graph (if it works)...
https://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photogallerys/06TrkSS-5.jpg
The 675 does seem to be a little better throughout the rev-range, however note that it stops sooner. This means it has to be relatively a little higher geared, which means at say 50mph, either bike is going to have about the same amount of power.

[Dr. DaveJPS]

i test rode a 650, and it made more midrange than my '01 FZS600, plus it had a far healthier top end, but i will admit i've not ridden many IL4s, as i've been lured to the darkside of twins since then cause i couldn't find an IL4 at 600 range that was worth the extra over my FZS
____________________
"intelligent inattention is preferable to unintelligent tinkering"
www.davejps.com

[G]

I find it odd you find your SV has good 'bottom end', having ridden (both commuting and club racing, stunting and various other general riding) SV650s, I've always found them to be lacking low down.
What it seems to me is that they do give the sense they have more low down because the power comes in a smooth and controllable fashion. However I can assure you from the racing that you must definitely do have to be at the top of the rev range to get more power; more so than most sports 600s.

So, I would wonder if it's more a 'feel' thing you are experiencing, mixed slightly with gearing.

The 636 was known to have more mid-range power than it's rivals of the time and I'd say does feel like this.

[ram_doom]

From what you say, sounds like you'd get on with either an aprillia falco, or TL1000s; you could get a perfect one of either with your budget, and have loads over to tweak it, and pay the big fuel bills Should have all the shove you need at any revs too!

I had a 636 (c6f 2006 model), and it walked away from the 599cc sports bikes, and pulled reasonably well from low down. The top end was manic too
____________________
TL1000s, KDX200

[Seb]

The Falco looks absolutely superb on paper, bit less weight and a bit sportier than my rather lazy Futura, but a bit friendlier than a Millie and I suspect it's easier to work on than the others too.
____________________
2010 Triumph 1050 Sprint ST

[Tango675]

SV1000? The SV650's big brother.
____________________
Somebody give that windup merchant a torque wrench..

[Fawbish]

[Bendy]

[minesweeper]

Get a test ride on both and see which you prefer.
I prefer the power delivery of the big triple in comparison to a big twin, mines comfy, never let me down and stable in all conditions.
Stick a race can on it and enjoy
____________________
Rvf400, 955i daytona, 954 fireblade, cbr1000rr fireblade 06 Hm plant

[MarJay]

Yes, as someone else mentioned a Firestorm meets your needs pretty well. Soft squishy suspension, but can hustle when it needs to. Comfy clip on based riding position. Sure its heavyish, but not as heavy as a 955i or a VFR750.

And you'll be able to get one within your budget.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Wave2k]

[slightlytasty]

Thanks for all the advice. Reckon I need to try 636. Is the suspension not a bit on the firm side? I ride some really bumpy roads over the moors. Also are they tough and reliable?

I'm not a particularly lazy rider but as most of my miles are commuting in traffic it is nice to warble along at 3-5000 revs and use little fuel whilst having urge left to quickly overtake when needed, one down change max.

On a thrash on a weekend I find the SV keeps up with most riders on the road no probs, in fact I honestly have only been overtaken and left behind twice in 12k miles on the SV. The difference is I use all my horsepower while I notice many other riders on new R1's etc., seem intimidated by there power, don't rev far enough and brake far too early.

My worry about getting too fast a bike is that I may end up like one of them - too much power for my skill. Do you think the Daytona 955i would be too much for me?
____________________
Own Aprilia RSV and 955i Speed Triple and 2002 FZS600, had Bandit 650, SV650S, GPZ500S, DR650

[G]

The 955i never felt that 'intimidating' to me, but you were doing 20-30mph less than on a similar R1 or whatever.
If you want the ultimate mid-range torque, a little bit more on your budget would get an early GSXR1000. However we are starting to talk a ridiculously quick bike if you do use it.
Early R1s offer a sporty position for a reasonable price too.

[Fawbish]

Im 20, and whilst fairly experienced, the 955i was the first litre bike I rode aggressively.



I found it a fantastic peice of kit, and this was stock with suspension on a normal road set up.


I rode it around mallory, so the torque was quite usable, only one place to open it up and it didnt feel tooo much faster than my zx6r...I reckon Im faster around mallory on the 6 though.


My ONLY gripe with the 955i, was that a) Not quite as flickable as my 6 (to be expected, weighs more) and when hanging off to keep it stable, it really did destroy the inside of my thigh. The tank has a wide part at the back that seems to not sit well with how my legs would naturally sit when hanging off.

But I dont know if you'll be hanging off much. So might not matter.


I loved the power and pull available, and the standard brakes were very good in my opinion (and thats compared to my recently upgraded zx6's brakes, to braided lines)


Admittedly, you wont be used the to the fairly quick rush an IL4 can give, but this wasnt as notable on the daytona, the triple configuration gives a nice mix between rush and pull I think.

Theyre great bikes, with lots going for them but never really became superpopular, so are quite affordable.

They also make one of the most sexual sounds ever with a race-can. Its like a rasp of death with bass tones to make you sex-wee

____________________
"Oh....it looks like Average Joe's is forfeiting the match!" - "Yeah, its a risky strategy but lets see if it pays off for 'em Cotton."