Don't attempt to grit and you're not liable for any damage !

[AndyGB]

I had an off about 10 days ago in a motorway services, purely because of ice on the roadway, causing approx £700 worth of damage to my bike.

I had a chat today with the AA bloke who came out afterwards to get the bike going again to see if he would be willing to write a letter supporting my view that the roadway was unsafe (it was covered in ice) and that the services owners had made no attempt to treat the road surface.

He had already queried this with someone in the AA head office as his van was slipping all over the place when he attended the call. He's been told that if the services had made an attempt to clear the ice but missed a bit and as a result I came off I could sue to recover the cost of the damage to the bike as they hadn't done the job properly.

However, and this is the bit that I think is ridiculous, if they made no attempt to treat the road then they are not liable for the damage as they have not failed to someone correctly, they just haven't done anything !

Has anyone else come across this ?

[Faldo]

It would appear that the AA man is correct. It was discussed a couple of weeks ago here.
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[cyberglass]

had a few accidents near my house just after xmas. The skem council have said it not there responsibility to grit they do it out of courtesy therefore they are not responsible


Unsure what the law is but it left some cage drives with some nasty repair bills including a 4x4 driver who switched to 4wd went up a steep hill in upholland then slid back down taking a few parked cars out.


surely if youve binned on the on/off lane of the services it is there responsibility to keep there roads safe ?
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DL650 Vstrom 2004
DRZ400S 2003
Yamaha R1 2005

[Hetzer]

Ah, bless all that road-tax, good to see it's going where it should.
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"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!"

[damz]

saw this in an article in "Bike"

"There is legislation in place requirig that the relevant authority maintain the highway. This does not however mean that they must take steps to make it safe to use as a road. If a road is allowed to be covered with water or ice by the local authority, then they may well be liable if an accident occurs. The claimant must demonstrate that the road surface was in a state that made it dangeroues for traffic and that the danger was due to a failure to maintain the road."

from what i can make out if they did a crap job of gritting the roads then they are liable but if they made no attempt they might not be as they wouldnt have known that there was ice forming there.

the authority will have to prove that they had operated in a good manner and responsibly with the weather conditions or they might get done for negligence.

i'd say give it a try and see if the council will admit they fucked up, whats the worst that can happen?

after riding though two pretty shit and icey winters many hours a night (usually 4 - 11) i have come off due to ice twice and both times in small housing estates, if its a main road it should had been gritted as it would be well used by many people where as small side streets are purely residential or private areas.
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Current Bikes RVF400 - 94
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[Faldo]

[The Disapproving Brit]

For private land, I think it's not so much a case as they have no duty to keep it safe, as a case that they aren't considered negligent if they haven't fixed it because they don't know about it.

Example: If you slip on my car park, and I haven't gritted it, I can say "Well I didn't know it was icy", and have a chance - I'm not expected to be aware of every hazard that exists. However, if you control it, and tell me it's slippy, then slip on it again an hour later, I've been negligent in not fixing a hazard that I've been made aware of.

That's my understanding of the situation, but I could be wrong.
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Current Bikes: 1983 Honda VF400FD / 2003 Honda VT750 Shadow
Bike Test Passed 18/03/09, Car Test Passed 14/05/13

[damz]

[AndyGB]

Sorry, should have done a search first.

It was inside the services, on a road between the car and lorry parks but before I had reached the petrol station.

After the accident they were definitely aware of the conditions as apparently someone from the traffic office was watching as I was helped up. Also when I was waiting for the AA to turn up two separate employees walked (shuffled) across the car park and the road on their way to the same office, but in the half hour I was waiting nobody came out to start treating it.

Oh well, I'll just have to write it off to experience. Of course if anyone else out there had an accident in Wolley Edge services because of the ice after 9am on the 20th Jan than sue, as they must have been aware of the ice after my accident !

[multijoy]

[kawakid]

I'm sorry I would have to side with the service stations owners.

How can they possibly attempt to make sure their entire area is frost free?

In the same way how can a council ensure all its roads are frost free. Gritting is fair enough, but grit doesn't go everywhere. They are only trying to help.

Why blame someone else?

I nearly came off 2 weeks ago riding in snow. I wouldn't have had the cheek to try and blame someone else, it was my own stupid fault for riding a bike when it had been snowing.

I really hate this blame culture nation we have become, I read in the local paper, that the council wasn't gritting in front of elderly resident's home's. So the council don't get sued if someone slips. . Ridiculous, what a shit country we've become and your trying to add to the problem.
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I've a twin and a 4.

[Faldo]

[Howling TerrorOutOfOffice]

Explains why the grit-boxes have dissapeared over the years, empty box=blame. no box=no liability.

Dum but true.

Pat
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[Kal]

[AndyGB]

[NSR Mick]

[Villers]

[G]

Fairly well known thing now I think - ironically from too many people seuing after not seeing ice!

On the total coverage thing, I wonder how much it costs to grit a whole service station - a lot, I expect.

Also, take note all the bikers I often hear moaning about over-gritting of roads when there doesn't turn out to be ice, some want the opposite!

I recently crashed on an icy-looking bit of roundabout on the way home from work. Think it's actually a private road, but <shrugs>, was my own fault for applying too much power in the wrong place.

[AndyGB]

At the risk of subjecting myself to Kawakids ire again I thought I'd post an update.

I was talking to a friend of mine about this who used to be a solicitor and she didn't think it sounded right and did some digging. There is still a responsibility to provide safe entry and egress from your premises so she suggested that I use the small claims process in the county court.

Using the money claims online service I submitted a claim against Moto just over two weeks ago which was accepted by the court. It looks as if Moto have ignored the courts paperwork in the same way they ignored my letter and as a result I've just been awarded the claim by default.

Next step is to get the bailiffs to serve the warrant for payment, so I will hopefully have recovered the money I had to pay out to get the bike fixed by the end of the month.

It cost £60 to register the claim and it will cost a bit more money to instruct the bailiffs (all this is done online) however all the costs are added to the amount owed by the defendant, so it will have cost me nothing.

[sickpup]

I think people are missing the point of what a Motorway service station actually is.

Part of the contract of having a Motorway service station is that it must be open 24hours a day 365 days a year to provide refuge and hot food to drivers, this is enshrined in law although I couldn't tell you which one.
If it is dangerous to enter the Services it cannot be considered open to motorists and therefore is in breach of the law.

[binge]

BUT, after all is said and done. Ice and snow on the roads is to be expected in the winter.

And when it snows, the roads generally are slippery.



Geez, I can tell alot of you have lived here in the UK all your lives. Try living in Germany for a winter.




Ben

[s44678]