Kickstarting a bike? (revisited)

[Itchy]

no not Keith,

In that I fairly recently made a topic about crank starting a bike from the crank and I think Mr Z stated you'd have to engineer it in such a way that it didn't tear off your arms.

Being a person who has only ever owned bikes with the magic start button even the SR125 I owned had a button I thought I best do some research first.

But whats this thing about kick back I keep hearing about , in that isn't a kickstarter supposed to have some sort of ratchet system in the mechanism so that it cannot possibly kick back?.

I keep finding stories of people who get maimed , legs broken / sliced open by a kickstarter which kicks back.

I might sound dumb asking but tis better to ask and look dumb than to kick start whatever bike I have on day 1 of the big trip and to have my leg broken before I've even gone anywhere right?....

And what is your technique to avoiding leg breakage just incase it does kick back? , say why you are sat on it or off it, I assume its where you lean your foot out at a certain angle so it slides off away from the motion of the kickstart am I correct?.

Any further thoughts?

Thanks.

(and yes I often get cornered by old bearded blokes in country pubs who say oh thats a nice bike to the CBR I used to have a norton of a squarial it'd break yer leg each time you started it which is confusing)
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[Moonie]

Maybe older bikes didn't have such a ratchet system, or they broke often.

Sometimes if I kick my bike and it doesn't catch until the final little bit it kicks back, but only enough to push my foot up an inch.

The only kickstart injuries I've ever had were a result of frantically kicking my KX and missing, resulting in a big old bruise on my calf.
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[eddclarke]

I've heard a few bad stories too, but the worst I have had, is slipping off the kickstart and the pedal going into my shin, fukcing HURTS!!!

When i first got my XR it was a nightmare to start, but now I know the technique its pretty easy.

I think the XR has a built in decompression thingy, to try and prevent kick back.

Do you know what bike you will be using yet?
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[tutton]

When speaking to the recovery bloke who picked me up last, i said i wanted a SM like a CCM, he said i wouldnt ive been out to about 10 recoveries where the kickstarts have broken their ankles, and he refuses to even try kick them. (the CCMS are 404 or 604 so compression ratio is high to turn em over)
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Past: '05 Peugeot XPS '99 Aprillia RS125 '94 FZR600R
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[hellkat]

I've only had a 125 and that doesn't have much to kick back with, but I had a few bruises before I learnt to do it right.

I wouldnt fancy kicking anything much bigger, I think its something to do with the compression (?)
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[MarJay]

You can't kickstart my MZ without wearing boots. It kicks back at you... hard. And its only a 300cc two stroke.

I tried to kickstart it with trainers on once, and regretted it. Even my gas gas sometimes spins the kicker back around and hits me in the shin.

Hence, I always wear boots when I ride my bikes.
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Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[stinkwheel]

As you press down on the kickstart and a sort of 1/4 segment of sprocket engages with (usually) a sprocket on the outside of the clutch basket, which in turn is attached to the crank.

So you press down and the segment engages and turns the engine over. When the engine starts, that ratchet mechanism you were mentioning comes into effect. The sprocket on the clutch basket on engages in one direction and "freewheels" in the other direction, just like the back wheel of a bicycle. This allows you to return the kickstart to the upright position.

Actually, a bicycle is a good analogy. Imagine the back wheel of the bicycle as your engine, and the pedals are the kickstart. You press the pedal, the wheel turns. If the wheel is going faster than the pedal (eg engine running), it freewheels and you get no resistance on the pedal.

Now. Kickback. This is where you fluff the kick or the ignition timing is too far advanced. The engine fires but sends the crank spinning the wrong way. It will only do one stroke like this (except on some 2-strokes which can run backwards) but it sends the kickstart back the way it came, with interest.

Think of your bicycle again, you go to pedal, get to the bottom of the stroke and some really big strong bloke grabs the back wheel and turns it backwards. The pedal would go up with your foot still on it.

Tips for kickstarting. Kick a 2-stroke over gently as if you are turning the engine with your foot.

Just welly over a multi-cylinder 4-stroke until it starts (unless it's an old Brit Twin, then treat it like a big single).

It's big singles you need to watch. Most modern ones have built in valve lifters (generalising here) so you kick it over gently until you feel the cylinder ease over compression. Then you give it an almighty wallop, swing the fucker over using your full weight as if you want to set the crank spinning (which is what you do want to do). You have to mean it, it should be purposeful and kicked as if you KNOW it is going to start on this kick. A half-arsed kick over is the surest way to have it spit back on you.

Don't worry too much though. Most modern bikes have a relatively short stroke. It's the old brit iron like Ariel rides that you need to watch out for. Mate of mine had a Panther 650, I've seen that launch people into the air.
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[Howling TerrorOutOfOffice]

Bitch ofa '93 CG gave me bruises, kicked it back

Pat
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[Moonie]

Panther 900 in our village, it's a single and it is really, really fooking loud

Wouldn't want to kick the thing over though
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[firefox]

ive chipped my shin before on the 450 single, even through the mx boots it still left red lumps and bruises on a good kick back,
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[Itchy]

nah its just that this video makes it look dangerous in that he is putting his whole weight on to the bike to jump up and down on it.... thus meaning he can't dodge out the way of a presumed kickback...

https://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=gtkgebik_Vw
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[eddclarke]

[Howling TerrorOutOfOffice]

RE: The vid
Looks the best approach for such a low bike and big engine. (He always took it to TDC)
I reckon if it were to kickback he'd probably get unbalanced, but less likely to get an injury. However if he kicked it the traditional way, then Ouch time.

Sounded lovely, shame i don't like cruisers

Pat
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[stinkwheel]

[stinkwheel]

[MarJay]

[Dr. DaveJPS]

[Newbiker0507]

I have kick back on my cg125 lol it grazed my shin to fu*k one time

[hmmmnz]

i used to have an old xr600 thumper, with a manual decompression lever, if you didnt use the decompression. you couldnt even get the thing to move at all, and if you fucked up when releasing the lever,
it would and did fire me straight off the bike,
bloody thing
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[Pete.]

Big-singles have a reputation but TBH it's like the '98 R1 or red powerband - more hyped-up myth than being every-time killers of kittens. Just make sure you're committed to the kick and you will rarely go wrong. Half-hearted efforts are rewarded with full-hearted punishments. I've only had a few kick-backs and always they were from not giving it enough effort.

Peversely - if you try starting a Hayabusa (obviously on the starter) with a weak battery the kick-back can be nasty enough to wrench the starter gear out of the engine cases tearing out the idler-gear boss and needing an expensive repair or new cases.
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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[Whosthedaddy]

Kickstarts mean no bumping and huffing up and down the road.

The battery on the monkey never really got a chance to charge in the short little bursts of use and prolonged periods of being tucked up in the garage. It'd kick over first or 2nd time, every time. God send I tell you.

I could only kick in neutral so a little awkward if stalled on the road and up and down the box trying to find neutral as it wouldn't if in gear with the clutch in.

The new ped has a kickstart, on the left of the bike? That'll take some getting used to as a brake has to be applied at the same time.
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[Moonie]

[Itchy]

[Kal]

Only time the CGs kickstart bit me was when I had oil on the bottom of my boot and my foot slid off mid push. Bit of an ouch.
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[G]

Worst kickback I've had was actually from a CG.
Never had a problem if I've made sure I've kept my weight on the kickstarter; not let my foot slip off.

A few of the kickstart bikes I've had, I've still had to bump start when they won't start from kick (my NS was good for this, but easy to bump.)

Do note that with some big thumpers it seems some just can't start them - unfortunately it can take a while to get used to.
It might be worth seeing if you can borrow one for a week to see how you handle it (whispers TE610, TE610, electric boot!) and if you can get used to it.
One DR600 I had it took me 15 minutes to start the first time I tried... did get used to it so it was fine first kick mostly, but some others that had tried couldn't even get near.