RBS Bonuses

[LeeR]

I don't know how any of you feel about the proposed bonuses RBS plans to pay it's staff, but if you feel strongly enough against them you might like to sign John Prescott's on-line petition:

No Ifs No Buts- Give up the Bonus, RBS
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[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

They won't give up the bonus, and I'm not surprised to be honest. The government just lets them walk all over it.
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[Itchy]

No quite frankly they can't not give them because it will be written into their contracts..

Bonuses are taken back , the staff run a class action suit they win easily and have to pay it anyway.

But hey the banks control the government anyway you aren't going to screw over your masters are you?
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[Kickstart]

Hi

Difficult to say which way. Plenty of those staff could have bonuses for doing their particular role to a certain standard. If someone had an agreement last year that if they did X, Y and Z this year then they would get a bonus then you will struggle to remove it, and likely that many (especially back office staff who are not actually dealing with money directly) will have succeeded in doing their X, Y and Z.

That said those who do deal directly with money would struggle to come up with a justification unless their bonus objectives were very badly set.

Problem with bonus schemes like these at high levels is that they land up encouraging micro management and short termism while ignoring the long term issues. It is easy to fiddle the books to get a short term benefit at the expense of the long term (eg, in manufacturing just scrap new product development, large short term benefit but the company will be dead in a couple of years).

All the best

Keith
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[UnknownStuntm...]

See I think firms who pay massive bonuses are cnuts anyway. My point being, if the staff are in a position to do a shithot job, they should be being paid at the appropriate level to do said job. Bonus, yes - anything more than 10% of a salary - no.

I've got a mate who works for a mobile phone company in Laahndaan and he is obnoxious to the point where I would smack his face across the floor when he talks about the bonus he gets. It's something approaching £40k. He must be on about £80k a year salary.

So frankly I think it's all a big con. I'm sure there are tax reasons though and Itchy will no doubt piss on my fire here!

[Itchy]

[LeeR]

As I said, if you feel strongly enough about it...

Anyway, my own personal thoughts are:

Yes, the employees have a written contract, but how many times is that contract ignored to suit the whim of the employer?

You're right some of the staff maybe "back-room" staff working hard and getting screwed because of poor management decisions, but then who isn't?

Yesterday my employer withdrew overtime and bonuses until further notice. This on top of suspended pay rises and redundancies in January, as I live in the real world why can't they?

Had the RBS along with other banks been allowed to fold (yes I know that's an entirely different discussion) then there wouldn't be any jobs or contracts to quibble over.

As one of the signatorys puts it:

[bazza]

[arry]

You really need to get under the skin of it and understand a lot of the background around RBS's plunge from one of the most respected brands in the world to the most despised pretty much overnight.

First off - bonus culture, talk of massive bonusses etc - you need to realise that everyone in a non managerial position at RBS is on a profit share arrangement of 10% salary, and has a performance bonus of maximum 15% tied in also. Financial targets are only part of the way in which the performance bonus is made up - the majority of it centres around customer service, technical competency, behvioural competencies etc. Now, the company may be in a financial turmoil but how do you tell someone that's worked to the company's statement of appetite and strategy, performed well and met all of the above including financial targets that they're not worth a bonus? Was it their fault? Did they set the strategy?

Conversely - it could be said (and I think it holds some water) that if Sir Fred wouldn't have gone against the advice of just about everyone including his own board that ABN Amro was a bad deal, and just bought it anyway, then RBS may not have been in state hands at all. So you could say that the exec board did all they could, but at the end of the day Goodwin's decision has cost them all dearly - is that something they can be penalised heavily for?

The irony is Barclays now coming out and saying they'll pay themselves bonusses because they've made a profit - their strategy wasn't too much different to RBS' and if we're honest, if they'd have bought ABN Amro instead of RBS The boot would well and truly be on the other foot!

[Polo]

Not many people told RBS not to go ahead with the ABN Amro deal. As has been stipulated, such takeovers have to have shareholder approval - which was gained at around 90% approval.

The big mistake was getting into a bidding war with Barclays. But that is Sir Fred for you. He wanted it and was willing to pay whatever. It appears that a lot of the ABN business done preio to RBS was conducted after a good shmokes. A lot of write downs are from their books but that should have been picked up with due dilligence.

In terms of bonuses - like has been in the press and written above. This is written into contracts, you can't just tear them up. This voids any online petition and why any threats from the Government is just lip service.

Expect future contracts of this nature to be renegotiated but for now there is not a lot that can be done. Where the bonuses can be slashed, they will be. I know that for a fact and the RBS profit share is up to 10%. Which will clearly be £0 for the foreseeable future.
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[LeeR]

A fair point Bazza...

Prescott is a two-faced shyster, but if he really had two would he be wearing that one?

Back to the point:

I was under the impression that in spite of Barclays raising £17 billion privately (at the government's request) they weren't going to pay bonuses.

And in spite of the hows and whyfors the fact remains that a commercial business bailed out to the tune of £30 billion (via the LloydsTSB buy out) who made a £28 billion loss last year, now intends to pay upwards of £1 billion in bonuses to it's staff.

If that don't stick in your throat, one has to ask: "Where is your gag reflex?"
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[arry]

[Polo]

Lee,

Would you prefer that these banks were nationalised? Do you want to obtain your bike, car, home, cat, dog, life etc, insurance from the Government? How about the people that stipulate motor vehicles require insurance, also provide it? RBS & HBOS aren't just banks, they are financial services and that muddy's the waters.

The government can turn a good profit from the bailouts and this will be seen in time. To do this, these banks need to retain it's good staff.

Me included.
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[arry]

[Polo]

(Minty leans forward for a low key, Hi-5)
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My mum smells your fingers

[LeeR]

[Polo]

Yeah, I am alright. I have just spent the last year wondering if my job was going as part of the RBS Insurance sale only to now enter the part where RBS start their jobs cull.

Oh yeah, I am on top of the world, ma.



Some of your facts are a little, sorry, way off the mark.

[arry]

[Kickstart]

[LeeR]

[map]

I just have a suspicion that the banks are holding onto the money the government has made available so as to boost their own profit figures and hey-presto, 'earn' those bonuses.

No wonder money's so hard to get hold of.

Don't these people realise that bankers are now held in utter contempt, disdain and loathing.

Sorry, while writing that last sentence I realised that they probably do know that and don't really care for anyone else.


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[Kickstart]

[pa_broon74]

Rank and file staff should get the bonus' as it wasn't their fault this happened. They are also afflicted with the same financial problems we all are.

Those responsible for setting policy should forgo it, I suspect they'll be able to get by without it.

Personally, I think about what I'd do if I was the same position. Since i'm not particularly ambitious, I'd probably be some lowly IT gimp or a teller, I'd take the bonus. If I doctored my CV and managed to get into a position where I was setting policy (obviously if I was, this crisis would never of happened, ) I like to think I'd forgo it.


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[map]

[Skudd]

The company I used to work for paid a bonus, but the company had to hit its profit margin, the store had to hit its profit margin and it was based on performance as well.
To get full bonus you had to hit all three, if the company didn't hit its profit target but the store did then a reduced bonus was given, but it was still on performance. if the company hit bonus but the store didn't then no bonus at all no matter how good your performance was, it was just tough.
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