Cornering On A Commuter Bike

[Doovy]

Hello

I have a Honda CD250, as you can see

https://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/doovydoo/IMG_3619.jpg

it had been sitting for about 6 years and the tyres on it when i got it were rubbish and old. i have since got a lovely new set, and i can feel the immense difference in grip when going round a corner.

However, now i am more confident in the ability of the bike - it leads me on to question my own ability..

What is the correct way to be going round a corner on this sort of bike? Is it leaning into the corner (i.e going round a left bend, leaning left over the bike as that leans aswell...) this feels rather precarious when i try it

or is it leaning the bike into the corner and trying to position yourself more upright in the opposite direction (im guessing this is counter steering, something i know of but never really understood) this feels a lot better when going round a shaper bend as i feel the bike is more balanced.

any help on this would be great

i am planning on a 600 when my restriction period is up and knee downs will be a must! so this is my basic training for now, as i know my bike at the moment would never allow my foot, let alone knee, to touch the floor



thanks for replies in advance
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Yamaha RXS 100 > Honda CD 250 > Honda Hornet 600 > Honda CBR 600RR > Yamaha RXS 100 > Kawasaki ZX6R J2 > Yamaha FZ1

[neatbik]

Hi mate, im no expert but this is what works for me -
Lean your upper body into the corner, you dont really need to get your arse of the seat.
To countersteer, on say for a instance a right hand bend, give the right handle bar a nudge, this will make the bike drop in nicely.
Again, leaning your upper body into the corner, dropping it a bit and keeping your forearms parralel to the ground will make countersteering very easy.
Also keep a relaxed grip on the bars, and once your in the corner banked over more or less let the bike steer for you, it will correct itself if needed.
I ride a sportsbike, so this works well for me, but i dont see any reason why it wouldnt work with your 250

[Kal]

You WILL already be counter steering, on both techniques. The first technique you mentioned is more of a racing stance, the second more of a motorcross style.

The issue for you getting the bike over could be your psychology - we are naturally happier when upright - or it could be your subconcious isn't happy about the grip, the roads still aren't good.

Book a trackday and learn from an experts on someone elses bike...
____________________
Kal...
I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It Ya Like To (HOON IT!).
1984 GB250 Clubman,1983 CB250N Superdream, 1999 GPZ500S

[stinkwheel]

You are thinking about it too much. Just ride the thing. Slow in, fast out. Accelerate smoothly through the corner, it is almost impossable to loose the front end under acceleration. Look at where you want to go, not at how much you are leaning.

If you want to hang off, hang off the side nearest the middle of the corner, this shifts the centre of gravity allowing it to go round a corner at the same speed for less lean.

Frankly, I wouldn't bother hanging off on a CD250 (I seldom bother hanging off at all), although rolling your weight across onto the inside butt cheek and pressing down on the same side peg can be to your advantage. Especially in the wet.

I garauntee you are leaning further over than you think you are and at this time of year, the condition of the roads means you ought to be concentrating more on staying on the bike than cornering fast.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Blau Zedong]

On mundane bikes with half decent tyres you can get away with all manner of stupidity, however I'm with Stinkwheel, just ride the bloody thing - fannying around with aggresive lean angles at this time of year is asking for trouble.
____________________
18:54:48 Rob Fzs: jews don't give away stuff for free

18:54:59 Rob Fzs: unless its their clothes/ hair/ golden teeth

[MarJay]

I read an article a while ago that says hanging off only works on machines that were designed for you to hang off... IE modern sports bikes.

The geometry of older bikes is just not suited to it, and more to the point modern bikes are designed NOT to work with you sitting bolt upright in a Hailwood sty-lee.

I don't bother to hang off of the MZ and it seems to do OK!
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Doovy]

Ok i understand what you are all saying

im not really trying to corner fast, just safely really. im not trying to get an aggressive lean angle either.

im just trying to find out what the best way for this sort of bike is. and yes i do ride the bloody thing

it just seemed to me that one way felt better than another, so i wondered why.

MarJay has knocked the nail on the head really..
____________________
Yamaha RXS 100 > Honda CD 250 > Honda Hornet 600 > Honda CBR 600RR > Yamaha RXS 100 > Kawasaki ZX6R J2 > Yamaha FZ1

[stinkwheel]

[Howling TerrorOutOfOffice]

^^^ Looks like No.4 is about to run abit wide....
See where he's looking
Which leads me onto this...make sure you turn your head, don't just look around/through the corner. Make the effort and turn your head, it works.
FYI :

[G]

Looks like he's looking at the rider in front, maybe. Angles can look rather odd in photos of racing.

Hanging off the other way as in motocross can often be used to create a controllable slide in dirt etc; now what you want on the road.

Modern sports bikes have wide tyres which is one thing that hanging off works well with. However, if you're getting near the edge of the tyre on a narrow tyre, but still have traction left, then hanging off will mean you can still keep the entire tyre in contact with the road.
Tyre profile also makes a difference; for instance if the profile means more will be in contact with the road when more upright, then hanging off is going to help here too.

However, yes, riding smoothly and comfortably is probably more important .
For general safety, I'd recommend a read of 'Motorcycle Roadcraft'; while for learning how a bike works when pushed to the limits 'A Twist of the Wrist II'.
Available from book shops, ebay and no doubt naughty download places.

[MarJay]

[Nicky-Jano]

Christ.
Haven't seen a pic of a bike being leant that much down before.
How the hell does he, Rossi, pick it back up again?

[Kal]

[Tristan.]

Sit in line with how the bikes leaning , or lean into the turn. Don't lean away from the turn and try to make your body upright, (unless you know what your doing and are doing it for a reason, like G said, to take traction from the rear.) Ask RXS_chris what he does, I doubt theres many who rides a CD250 faster than him.

[Feasty]

[ish765]

This is interesting to me.

I don’t think I was ever good at cornering on my GP100. I found it hard to grasp how low I actually was, and what was safe. I never felt I leant enough to get me any real benefit with regard to speed (i did try). But I assume I was not going low enough.

Even though it was only a 100cc bike it’s still a big chunk of metal to drop below a certain angle.

Anyone have any advice?
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RXS100 On the Road.

[stinkwheel]

And here we have the exact problem demonstrated.

Hence my "just ride the bugger" comment. It wasn't meant to mean "you need to ride it more" it was meant as "stop thinking about riding so much.".

Motorcycle riding is largely intuative, providing you look at where you want to go, the bike will take you there.

All of these books on roadcraft, technical tips and so-on can be totally counterproductive, you land up thinking about it so much that you make an arse.

Same happens in golf. This effect has been shown in a proper scientific study recently which used golf as its basis but the same could be applied to any hand-eye skill. The group who were given fifteen minutes of detailed coaching on how to putt a ball followed by five minutes to think about it made significantly fewer sucessful putts than the group who were told to walk right up and putt.

The same study also showed that this effect stopped when you got to people who had a lot of experience and so already knew what they were doing. They benefitted from the coaching but not as much as you'd expect.

So. Stop trying to corner and corner.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Doovy]

lol im not trying to corner, i am.

i just wanted to know what other people do as i have never asked before!
____________________
Yamaha RXS 100 > Honda CD 250 > Honda Hornet 600 > Honda CBR 600RR > Yamaha RXS 100 > Kawasaki ZX6R J2 > Yamaha FZ1

[Blue_SV650S]

If you are thinking of getting a sports bike in the future, then it is best to start working on your technique now, regardless of if yo look like a t1t or if is really doing you much good on your current bike ..

The accepted sports bike style is to 'get off' the bike in the direction of the corner. i.e. when going left, you slide off the left side of the seat, this allows the bike to sit more upright for the same corner speed. The sooner you start working this into your technique, the easier it will be to do when you get a 600 and - if you want to be quick - it is greatly beneficial ...

p.s. my first kneedown was on a CB100N
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The purpose of life is to fight maturity.

[ish765]

I imagine it’s the same on any bike. I used to ride a push bike a lot, No problem with that. Just drop the bike and let it do its thing.

So I am thinking the only difference is getting the heaver bikes down. I can imagine it being hard on that 250. The thing is when you go around a corner the weight of the bike counts against you, pulling the bike upright if you don't go beyond a certian point.

I can see what’s being said about counter steering to bring it down. I don’t think ill be trying it myself yet . But I don’t see why any bike could not be got beyond 45 degrees.
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RXS100 On the Road.

[stinkwheel]

Fastest rider in my club neither hangs off his bike nor puts his knee down when riding on the road. I garauntee he would ride rings around 99.9% of the people on this forum.

He has had the same set of pristine, unmarked knee sliders for the last three years.

Most people you see hanging off are doing nothing more than posing, they probably actually go slower because they've upset the balance climbing about so much.

Good throttle control and a smooth, balanced approach to and throughout a corner is far more important than hanging off.

This is the guy I'm talking about, Maybe not the fastest rider in the world, but I bet there are VERY few, possibly no people on this forum who could do a 100mph lap of the TT circuit on a 400.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[G]

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[ish765]

[salty21]

on the topic of countersteering, i've been trying to observe my brisk paced cornering tecnique over the last few days of decent weather and have noticed that i push on neither bar and pretty much just have both my hands almost hovering above the bars and gripping just tight enough to be able to adjust the throttle, so i am basically letting the bike decide its own steering angle for the lean angle.

is this normal or do i need to change my ways and start consciously(cant spell it) countersteering to get anywhere near a knee down lean angle, i have toyed with it a bit but find it feels more unstable and i tend to run wide

any advice greatly received and appreciated
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04 NSR 125(sold) ---- 03 CBR 600rr(sold) ----90 pan euro ST1100 '' ----02 CG 125
94 CB400 Super Four ---- 2000 VTR SP1 (sold) ---- 08 ninja p8f(sold, meh) ----05 CBR600rr