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Have you seen the stock markets today?

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JonB
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 02 Mar 2009    Post subject: Have you seen the stock markets today? Reply with quote

The FTSE 100 at only 3600 points. That's gotta be the lowest for sometime hasn't it?
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igiyf
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PostPosted: 15:43 - 02 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

what? Laughing
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 15:45 - 02 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm actually expecting it to level out at 1500-2500.

Thats many people's pensions toast then.....

Its probably got something to do with the fact that the Bank of England this week is poised to PRINT 140bn. However new laws mean that they don't have to tell us how much and who is getting the money either.

Which is about 8% of the money supply this means that every £10 you have is now only worth £9.15 ish.*

If this does not have the desired effect they will print more and more and more until we turn intom Zimbabwe.

Cutting interest rates and VAT did not have the desired effect so they cut them again and again and again.

The market is ineffect building into the price a premium of higher risk that the UK government will in effect default.

Oh and even HSBC is has made losses, and HSBC is so big that if it falls there can be no rescue of it.
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pa_broon74
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PostPosted: 16:39 - 02 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought HSBC made a profit, just not as high as last years... (62% down acording to the BBC.)

Stock markets went down world wide, its not just here. Apparently the DOW Jones is at its lowest since 1997 although I also notice that the FTSE fell the furthest (as a percentage...)

Mmm... Might get some more tinned goods, maybe get an allotment... (Not that I'd know what to do with one of those...)

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pigmo
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PostPosted: 17:00 - 02 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see a problem. I have just paid our monthly bills so everything is OK until armageddon, well OK, at least until next month. As long as I get my share of the £140,000,000,000 I couldn't care less how much the £ is devalued. I'm sure a token increase in the national minimum wage will compensate for the devaluation anyway
And that Morgan Tsvangirai seems like a nice enough bloke, certainly better than the Scottish idiot running this gaff, maybe a Zimbabwe style Britain will be OK.
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pa_broon74
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PostPosted: 17:05 - 02 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmm...

I'm sure itchy will be along shortly to explain properly. But your share of 140 gazillion pounds might not be worth much if a tin of beans, a loaf of bread and some flora buttery (for beans on toast you understand) costs about 139 gazillion pounds to buy.

Although I agree, these headlines are generating some pretty scary thoughts. But when I look out the window, folks are going about their usual business.

Its a schizophrenic economy. Shocked (No it isn't! Shoosh, it is! etc etc etc... :groan: )

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Skudd
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PostPosted: 17:14 - 02 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which Billion are we using? The English or the American? Ten to the power of 12 or ten to the power of 9?
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Fawbish
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PostPosted: 17:35 - 02 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is teh Tera Billion I fink.
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pa_broon74
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PostPosted: 17:46 - 02 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

They've had to bring in a new one called 'gazillion.'

The key advantage is that it doesn't refer to a specific number of noughts after a number so can be chopped and changed on the whim of government/media/etc etc etc/woteva.

They tried saying 140 wedontreallyknowillion but some one pointed it people might get wise to the gig...

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Skudd
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PostPosted: 17:57 - 02 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just hope we never get to the " Shed Load" .
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pigmo
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PostPosted: 18:42 - 02 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Americans now use the same billion as we do.

I've just snapped back into reality and realised that what I typed earlier is a crock of PC shit. Must of been having one of my moments.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 19:31 - 02 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

pigmo wrote:
The Americans now use the same billion as we do.
.


Are you sure? The English Billion is a million million, the American Billion is a thousand million.

Don't forget their gallon is smaller than our gallon.
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GhostRider
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PostPosted: 20:45 - 02 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skudd wrote:
pigmo wrote:
The Americans now use the same billion as we do.
.


Are you sure? The English Billion is a million million, the American Billion is a thousand million.

Don't forget their gallon is smaller than our gallon.


Agreed, it was a question in the pub quiz the other week and that was the answer Very Happy

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Itchy
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PostPosted: 21:31 - 02 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

pigmo wrote:
I don't see a problem. I have just paid our monthly bills so everything is OK until armageddon, well OK, at least until next month. As long as I get my share of the £140,000,000,000 I couldn't care less how much the £ is devalued. I'm sure a token increase in the national minimum wage will compensate for the devaluation anyway
And that Morgan Tsvangirai seems like a nice enough bloke, certainly better than the Scottish idiot running this gaff, maybe a Zimbabwe style Britain will be OK.


Erm if you just put a 0 or 10 zeroes on the end of everything then you have done nothing in that the cost of everything is in effect the same.

Hyperinflation is bad as it causes shortages when each government in hyperinflation tries to introduce price controls, imagine if there was 105% income tax you wouldn't get up to go to bed in the morning would you, and in effect price controls which always occur in hyperinflation (yugoslavia / argentina / Ming Dynasty China / Germany Weirmar republic and so on).

It is exacerbated by the fact that those who still produce things especially food decide to export instead of keep the food in the country. You can change the law to keep the food in the country but again this is 105% income tax scenario , it would cause severe shortages of everything. Namely as nobody wants to bring anything into the country as they have nothing to value to pay with.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 22:09 - 02 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
Oh and even HSBC is has made losses, and HSBC is so big that if it falls there can be no rescue of it.



No they made a nice healthy profit.....

Which in many years would have had the media screaming "profitering" Rolling Eyes
Funny old world we live in.....

I would love to know just what "goodwill impairment" covers as profit before this was only down 18% which is 10% up on the half year figure of 28%.
A quick Google brings up this... Way over my head......

Quote:
Diversified business model delivers profits in every region except North America and every customer group except Personal Financial Services.


Can always trust the USA to screw the rest of us over, thankfully HSBC are now pulling out of there....

Just hope i get a chance to pick up some of the shares that are coming up in the rights issue.... I smell a nice profit Mr. Green
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pigmo
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PostPosted: 22:23 - 02 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhh shit, I'd stand corrected, well and truly, if I could stand. Shit man, my legs have gone all weak.

So they're printing £140,000,000,000,000. Divide that by the 62 million they say reside in Not So Great Britain and that equals £2,258,064 (well over £2 million) for each person.

Ah well, I'm sure it will all work out well, I mean Gordon Brown wouldn't lead us into stormy waters would he?

Oh sorry, there I go again, getting all confused. It's the TV you know, it makes me say this shit.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 00:04 - 03 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

While UK billion was traditionally a million million, pretty much everything now uses the US thousand million as a billion.

All the best

Keith
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D O G
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PostPosted: 00:31 - 03 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

iooi wrote:
what "goodwill impairment" covers


Goodwill is an asset on a Group's Balance Sheet. An impairment to Goodwill simply means that the group has assessed the value of that asset and found it to be lower than it is currently recorded. They then need to reduce the asset's value, which results in a corresponding expense to the profit and loss.

Say for example you had a house on your balance sheet, it was worth $100k before things went wrong, now when you look at it's value it is only worth $80k. Its value is impaired, and you need to write down the asset by $20k, and the only place that writedown can go is against profit.

Now goodwill is a bit different to a house. It is what we call an intangible asset - there is nothing 'physical' like a house, stock, loans receivable to attribute it to. It arises when one company buys another.

For example, say a Yamaha dealer buys a Honda dealiership for $1m, but the value of all the physical assets (i.e. the building, the bikes, the stock, the cash etc etc) of the Honda dealer is only $750k. The premium paid (i.e. the $250k) over the value of the tangible assets is known as Goodwill. It generally occurs as due to the 'sum of the whole is worth more than its parts' rule - the Honda dealer may have an excellent reputation, loyal customer base and be a good strategic fit, and hence is worth more to the Yammy guy than just the value of its assets.

So, what HSBC have done is look at the value of the companies they own (of which there will be shitloads), assessed their value, and have found that they are overvalued due to the fact they will have a big exposure to some bad/doubtful debts. They have had to reduce their value, and the first thing that goes when you reduce the value of a subsidiary company is the intangible asset (an accounting rule), hence your styonking charge for Goodwill Impairment.

I suspect (but have no firm knowledge) that the parent of the HSBC group has little in the way of debtors - it itself does not do the lending, its subsidiary companies do it, so if they write their loans down, then they are worth less to the parent, which means the parent has to impair the Goodwill too, you almost get a double whammy of writedown expense to profits.

It is important to realise that writedown of goodwill is a totally cash free transaction, it has little effect on the group at all. Indeed in future years it will make the performance of the group look much better, as the Return on Assets will improve.

If I worked at one of the banks, or in fact any company doing the accounts at the moment I would be looking to impair my assets, it is a great time to do it - you have an excellent excuse to do so, and it will help you in the long run.
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Paddy Blake
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PostPosted: 02:01 - 03 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

HSBC was stopped on NAZ for trading.
Dow hit a low of 6763.
Irish banks were up.
All were down but a few.

https://www.bloomberg.com/markets/stocks/wei_region2.html

Paddy.
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pigmo
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PostPosted: 15:44 - 04 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
Hi

While UK billion was traditionally a million million, pretty much everything now uses the US thousand million as a billion.

All the best

Keith


SO I was right then. I always thought every three extra zero's made million into a billion, and another three zero's makes it a trillion.
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Mudskipper
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PostPosted: 15:54 - 04 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
Hi

While UK billion was traditionally a million million, pretty much everything now uses the US thousand million as a billion.

All the best

Keith


I was just going to question that, thought I was going mad as all our National Statistics publications use the 'thousand million' version of billion.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 20:31 - 04 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

pigmo wrote:


SO I was right then. I always thought every three extra zero's made million into a billion, and another three zero's makes it a trillion.


I didn't say you were wrong just which billion you were using Thumbs Up

I think my local Tesco Garage is using the American gallon now though.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 10:53 - 05 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard on BBC news today that the Govt are thinking about using the "quantitative easing" thing now.

I read in the Economist that we're ALL in the shit if they do Rolling Eyes
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igiyf
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PostPosted: 13:39 - 05 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Na we will be fine we need and will be getting the help of america to solve these issues,the country with more toxic assets than the global gdp is it not- the new president who's actions in his first 50 days have been Momentous in setting the stage for economic recovery with such actions as investing 2.2 million$ towards the research of grape DNA...

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=The+New+World+Order+on+CNN+Lou+Dobbs+Tonight&aq=f

In the next few months we will see further steps towards the new development of.....
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D O G
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PostPosted: 13:47 - 05 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meh.

Ultimately the problem is that the banks won't lend. However, the banks don't make any money unless they lend.

Personally I believe that in a few months (maybe after next quarter's results), then banks will have to start lending to get their profits up.

There are only so many assets (i.e. loans) they can write down in value and record losses on. Once they have done so, which I believe they are doing aggressively at the moment they will have to stop, and will have nothing left to blame. They will have to start trading (i.e. lending) again to make money.

That will ease the situation a great deal.

Give it 6-12 months and we will see an improvement, IMO, or if you follow the Itchy school, I will be scooping your eyeballs out and eating them for breakfast.
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