how many seconds is sorted suspension wortha lap?

[Deano]

I'm hoping to do an emra round this year and i know I was roughly doing 59 to 1m2s last time I was at mallory due to a newish tyres.
my suspension is stock but to be up front in a race my times would need to get down to the low as 54s- 55s.

Do you think sorted suspension can cut 4 seconds off my lap times considering my current suspension is completely STOCK?

I dont expect to win but also dont wanna be running around at the back.

gonna try and get this sorted for next year and if you had a choice what would you do first FRONT or REAR.

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

Whichever you get sorted first it'll make the other end feel crap, save and do the lot at once if you can.

I wouldn't like to say how much it would give you per lap, I'd be surprised if it was four seconds, since OE suspension has come on in leaps and bounds over the past 5/6 years or so.
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[G]

Some people do get decently faster when stuck in a racing environment - Luke's lap times dropped by quite a bit if I remember, compared to trackdays.

It depends how bad your suspension is, but I wouldn't expect 4 seconds just from suspension. Remember the suspension just gives your the capability to go faster .

While it's nice to be running at the front, I've never had a problem with running at the back providing I'm happy with the way I'm riding - riding near the front and riding badly still isn't as satisfying, though sadly does still give you some contentment.
For instance, the off-road stuff I've been doing, I've often felt pretty slow compared to a lot of the other riders out there, but have been happy with my riding in comparison to my abilities.

[Deano]

how much did yours and lukes time drop in a race exactly G just out of interest. TBH if im gonna race I wanna win, I know 4-5seconds is a lifetime but really dont have experience of good suspension on a bike.
The r1's suspension is good stock.

Ive got someone local who has offered do my setup for suspension for free as long as I wear his stickers which I will do happily.

I just wanted to hear personal experiences with the question. can anyone tell me how much time they dropped on a trackday environment

[G]

If you want to win, find a slow series to race in .
The way I've seen it, is, until you're Rossi etc, if you're winning, then you're just racing at a too low level . Big fish, small pond etc.

In some cases, I actually got slower in the first race! Not sure luke had any lap times before to compare, but I'd expect he did drop a few seconds - however he definitely seemed a lot more 'focused' when compared to his trackday riding.

I rarely found getting suspension setup would even give me a second a lap quicker, but it might give me (even if a bit of a placebo) confidence to push myself more and thus improve going on from that.

[Bikeless]

What series are you going to race in?When i used to go to Mallory to watch my friend in the RD250 series with New ERA and EMRA,he used to do quite well but the 600 supersport series was mental with some very quick riders.600's normally would win in the open classes too.

[Deano]

well anything I can with my r1, then it depends from then on, I may sell up for next year do superstock 600 but i need to get everything else sorted before looking that far ahead.

I know 600 is all you need at mallory, i was surprised to see a rs125 able to keep up with my r1 and a cbr100rr on the main straight its onyl when you get to the end of the straight that you tend to catch them and never found the extra power any advantage over the 600s there.

and G EMRA and NG tend to be the most budget class there is but the Open races have national level riders participating.

[Blue_SV650S]

59-62s/lap

That is a hell of a lot of variation (unless you mean the 62s were due to traffic?)!! Why is there so much variation in those times?

If you need to be doing low 54s to win, then I think you are disillusioned to think you will win out of the box, that 5-8s/lap you are down ... suspension or no suspension I can't see a sudden drop of 8s/lap, depending on how the bike feels now perhaps 2???!!! Each additional second becomes exponentially harder to get ... its then all about commitment ... How 'unhappy' is the bike feeling now?? Do you feel the suspension is holding you back?

Its no question if you intend to race, you NEED to sort the suspension front and rear. Its a no-brainer.

Having the sorted suspension will make it possible to get to the 54s, but sadly its YOU that has to ride it to the 54s .... its not the bike, suspension or tyres that do that ... you need to fundamentally be riding faster.

if you have currently plateaued at 60s lap, you are going to find it hard to get 57s laps, 54s are going to need DRASTIC change ...

I am not trying to be pessimistic here, just realistic.

I am not saying the 54s will never come (I have never seen you ride for a starter!) but as I said above, from 60s laps, that isn't going to come easy/quickly ...

Aim for the win, but if you think you will (out of the box), then you are setting yourself up for a big downer!!!!

Get the suspension sorted, then get out there and see how you get on, but 6s/lap is gonna take MAJOR additional commitment!!
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[Deano]

[Blue_SV650S]

[G]

[Deano]

[Blue_SV650S]

[Fawbish]

Are you making full use of the power of the R1 deano?


If not, could be a help to get a smaller, less powerful trackbike, set it up for you, and then really concentrate on using absolutely everything at your disposal (without relying on power for laptimes).


Or maybe a few go's on a smaller trackbike may help identify what's holding you back to a better degree?

Just an idea. If you've already progressed through 600's and you've surpassed them than fair play
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"Oh....it looks like Average Joe's is forfeiting the match!" - "Yeah, its a risky strategy but lets see if it pays off for 'em Cotton."

[Deano]

that is in the pipline but maybe for next year fawbish, I have bike so just gonna do what i can for experience this year with it, rather than go through the hassle changing bikes and even then i dont know if it will have any gremlins etc.

the suspension was setup for a different rider from what I was told, he was novice rider and setup to be ideal for him and how he rode, he is going to set it up for free and rather me having to start more trial and error process and totally headfucking me. I think he will definately get it spot on for me and my weight straight away as he does suspension for national superstock teams already.
So far I have not touched the settings at all.

me and my old man are booking rockingham probably for next month as the next day as i dont feel comfortable with my LHS cornering but other than that nothing.

[Blue_SV650S]

[garth]

Haven't read all of that above, but there is a bump going into gerrards that gives you a wobble. I just keep it pinned

Dare say your entry speed is quicker than mine, but im flat out in top pretty much.
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[Deano]

last time I was there garth, I didnt find one person there was beating me on corner entry on to gerrards, i get too 4th-5th before breaking near the paddock entrance to the track, though one or two were about the same. I feel I could go in faster if i had a smoother entry.

I really did improve since the last time I went.

[garth]

Fair play.

I don't brake at all going into gerrards. Try doing that on yours and you'll prob end up in the lake or something.
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[Deano]

you tend not to brake hard there on the r1 just touch the brake to smooth out the entry and drop a gear, need to get better at downshifting as keeping the revs high through there to keep the corner speed up.
normally I carry enough corner speed to get me halfway through gerrards then start getting on the throttle again.

[Fawbish]

Sounds like you're not actually on the throttle for the first half of gerrards? Are you just keeping it constant, then starting to accelerate in the latter half of the corner?
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"Oh....it looks like Average Joe's is forfeiting the match!" - "Yeah, its a risky strategy but lets see if it pays off for 'em Cotton."

[Deano]

yeah im not as the bike doesnt feel settled enough to apply more throttle, i try to keep the throttle opened as a constant opening to keep the corner speed up but I wouldnt dare try and open it much more than Im doing but more practice at it I will eventually build up my confidence and maybe smooth it out for me on the suspension which should help.

[Fawbish]

Hmm, from a pure physics point of view, I would assume that you will be having your stock suspension actually hardened, if anything...can't see there being a reason to make it softer unless it is already very hard.


Therefore I wouldnt see the suspension change youre about to have helping on that particular part of mallory when trying to open the throttle a little more (They could do to resurface it couldnt they!)

I wasnt doing the kind of speeds you are, but if I entered Gerrards at around the ton mark, or 110ish I think (I may be remembering incorrectly, and coulda been a lot slower - Just remember glancing down a few times and seeing it on the speedo), I found I could keep opening the throttle further bit by bit all the way round. I didnt really keep it constant through the first part. However, I was hanging like a monkey, and was in the Novice group and there was a fair amount of traffic (hence your corner speed is probably far higher) (However, always a nice feeling to overtake on the outside )

But I realised it was a) My balls and b) My tyres (touring rubber)that I felt (even if it was Placebic) were holding my corner speed back on Gerrards. I've never adjusted my suspension, so not even taking it into account at this point.


I dont know where I was going with this post. Just cool to discuss it really. lol.
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"Oh....it looks like Average Joe's is forfeiting the match!" - "Yeah, its a risky strategy but lets see if it pays off for 'em Cotton."

[Blue_SV650S]

Its been 7yrs since I have been to Mallory, so my memory is a little faded, but I actually wrote up my take on each of the circuits I rode ... if it is of any interest to anyone ... here is what I wrote about Mallory ... (note as I said, its years since I have ridden there so it was written before they put the chicane in instead of the esses - but pretty much everything else is still the same right??).

Ignore or Enjoy!!

Mallory

Heading down the start finish straight chin on the tank, accelerating hard, make your way to the left of the track on your approach to Gerards. This is a 'big nads' corner that goes on for ever and the speed really builds, if you have the confidence this corner is where the laptimes are. Give the brakes a good tug at about the 100 yard marker. This may only be a short jab of the brakes, but as it is quite hard and short it may unsettle the bike a little. You should still be carrying a fair lick of speed, get back on the throttle to balance the bike and tip into the corner where the tarmac changes, as the corner is so long you cant really see where you are turning into (i.e. normally scanning for an apex) watch out for the bump at this point. This corner is stupid long and be prepared to poke yourself in the eye to keep awake half way round. Your first apex is about a third the way round the corner and is quite natural, but it isn't really that defined and there is considerable room for error as the corner is so long and wide. Don't drift too wide mind as it isn't the fastest line and it can get a bit bumpy and slippy out there. After this apex you can start winding on a bit more power and let the bike drift slightly wide to about a third of the way across the track. Then there is your next apex, roll off the throttle slightly and turn the bike more for the apex, which is just after when the kerbing on the right ends. Just as you apex really hook up now and let the bike drift to the left on the exit and down the short straight that follows down to the Lake Esses.

The 'Esses in' is the start of what is essentially a flowing chicane. A fast right, left complex. A lot of time can be made or lost here, to get a good lap you will need to carry the brakes all through the right hander, rather than overbraking into the right hander to set your speed for in ensuing tighter left hander. The approach is pretty flat, so you can brake hard from the left side of the track. The turn in is late here and you are hard on the brakes, ease off the brakes, but still feather and turn in hard. The first apex is just after the bump in the kerbing on the right, you need to use all of the track here. Crack back on the power, flop the bike over and head for the left hand kerb/apex. The apex is roughly where the surface changes again and there is a positive camber here if you cut it tight enough, which will aid you in turning in. You can get on the power really hard out of here, watching for the highside, let the bike drift right to get maximum power down, then head left on the approach to Shaw Hairpin.

The approach is slightly up hill, which should aid braking, but it really doesn't seem to make much difference. There is a big tree on the right hand side of the track, this is about where you want to be hitting the brakes ... HARD ... sit right back in the saddle as this one is virtually to a halt. This place is renowned for the last of the late late brakers move, so watch people up the inside, or even T-Boning you in this turn as this is pretty much the last true opportunity to pass. The apex is mid corner, watch you don't clip this kerbing as it is really high and will make quite a mess of your knee/the bike. You really have to chuck the bike on its side and get some serious toedown here, once past the mid point get on the power again, but be careful not to highside as the camber starts to drop away slightly and you are probably right in the sweetspot in 1st (or well up there in second) with the bike flat on its side. Bring the bike upright and hard on the power for a quick short rip to the Bus Stop Chicane.

This part of the track is a bit weird, it is like there are some roadwork's and diversion has been set up, what's that all about??? Presumably it is there to try and make the Devils Elbow safer? It's essentially short sharp left, right chicane with high sides/barriers and one line through it with no chance to overtake once negotiating it unless you are really assertive and seriously bashing fairings. This chicane is all about the exit. On approach, resist the temptation to visit the cosy looking bouncy castle that blocks the track off and enter the chicane, watch the kerb on the right as it's 18 inches high, and covered in concrete, it's gonna smart if you catch it ... cut it tight, but watch your bonse. Keep off the right hand side of the bike even though you are about to go left a bit, push the bike up for the first left hand apex to make the turn and just clip the kerb. Drop the bike back over to the right (well upright) to straight line the exit. The camber is really bad here as it drops away just when you want to flop the bike over to the left and be getting seriously on the power, so check the revs and let the bike drift out to about half track, drop the bike to the left and then power up progressively, if you gas up too hard too early, the bike won't want to turn in, head for the carousel that is the Devils Elbow.

You are teetering on the edge of grip out of the bus stop, desperately trying to get the power down for the drive to the start/finish line. You have to be committed to really nail it through here as you are running on the barely used therefore less heated left and side of the tyre and there's no run off, just a menacing looking concrete barrier that is the start of the pitlane. Short shifting a gear here is the way to go as you can't get full power down at the start anyhow and having 'left side down' means getting your foot on the leaver when cranked over to hook up a gear is awkward if not impossible, the other bonus is that you won't upset the bike mid corner either. This is the only corner on the UK scene I have ridden that I think ‘race’ configuration shift is extremely beneficial over conventional. Anyway, get as much drive as you dare through the corner aiming to clip kerbing on the left at the point where as it ends. The track drops away quite steeply here and the back of the bike may twitch a little, so you have to be brave on the throttle, try and ignore it and feed in as much power as possible. The bike will now drift ominously towards that wall, but that is the line you want to be on. For the reasons stated above the size of your sack will be directly proportional to the amount of track you use at this point, you should be using it all!! Clench your cheeks, hook up good and head back down the start finish straight completing the lap.

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The purpose of life is to fight maturity.

[Al]