What's the name of the guy on here who sells braided lines?

[s44678]

As above. Can't remember his name. Will delete this thread once I have the answer, so don't bother to write the most insightful thing you've ever thought of because it won't be around for long.

Thanks in advance.

[Mr.Everready]

Sickpup ?
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[s44678]

[Ichy]

FWIW I brought three braided hoses from these people a couple of weeks ago.

https://stores.ebay.co.uk/PKN-Worldwide-Motorcycle-Spares

All seems well although you don't seem to get a choice on the end fitting. Still, pretty cheap, they look good enough, and fitted just fine.
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[s44678]

F-it. Might as well chat about braided lines seeing as the post is staying!

So yeah, I was looking at some of those non-branded lines. They seem decent enough, and are quite a bit cheaper than the branded (goodridge, hel etc).

Choice of fittings isnt really an issue, as long as they aren't ally (assume they are zinc for that price) just need to have a plastic sleeve on.

Anyone had any experience of these generic ones? One thing I though might be an issue is the Banjos are all straight, whereas when you buy branded and give them your make and model I figured they gave you the same angles as the OEM.

[Bishbash]

IMO I really don't see the point in getting braided hoses added, there is such a small difference under hard breaking. Is it a look thing? I really don't get the whole attraction to them.
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[Bishbash]

[Kickstart]

Hi

Not sure they really do last longer. Suspect more that the makers of them are less paranoid that the bike makers.

They are more easily damaged. They can expand (checked a load of hoses with some measuring calipers while pulling the brake lever hard, the standard fit braided hoses on Charlottes Thunderbird expanded the most, FAR more than the 10+ year old rubber hoses on my RS125).

Suspect for most people the reason they find an advantage from using braided steel hoses is that it forces them to bleed the brakes properly.

All the best

Keith
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[Bishbash]

I cant find any evidence of them making any significant difference, I found one site with some testing on them;

Quote;
Well, the first hose we tested was an old and worn rubber hose. In static conditions, this hose had an OD of 10.76mm and, when pressurised, it expanded to 11.02mm. An increase of 2.4 percent.

Next, we tested a brand new rubber hose. The new hose had a 10.47mm OD which expanded to 10.65mm when pressurised. An increase of 1.7 percent.

The final test was a new braided steel brake line. In static conditions, the braided line had an OD of 6.45mm and expanded to 6.49mm when pressurised. An increase of less than 1 percent.

And that is under 3500psi

Their conclusion;

Well, yes, a braided steel brake line does give less expansion under pressure than a rubber hose - but the margin is extremely small. And keep in mind that these tests were conducted at more than double the pressure you might generate in a real-world situation. So the difference between braided steel and rubber brake hoses is extremely, extremely small...


Just sounds like a waste of money to me.
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Trackday videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/bishbash13

[Ichy]

I buy them for two very simple reasons. The first is that they are cheaper than OEM when I need to replace the hoses on my older bikes. The second is that I ocasionally need custom lengths of hose, for instance I've just fitted different, bigger, bars to my bike.

Many people suggests it improves the feel. No idea how you quantify this or even if its true, it might be, as Keith said, just because they've bled and refilled with new fluid.
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[Bikeless]

Fitted Earls to mine and TBH i can't tell the difference,they are slimmer and more pleasing on the eye though.

[Pete.]

[s44678]

[Kickstart]

Hi

Very true, but equally conceivable that the steel braiding is loose enough to also allow a bit of expansion before the braiding becomes useful.

[pyx_e]

Big Question: Braided Hoses, farkle or life saver?

To be honest I am never going to be able to push my bike to the point where it makes a difference.

But I like farkles and the look nice. I have bought shit for my bike for lesser reasons.
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Shiney!
Kawasaki: ER5, Versys, VN900.

[s44678]

[Kickstart]

Hi

I suspect that any pump you use would be unlikely to be accuratly calibrated enough to get a consistant 1000psi.

Suspect it would be FAR easier to measure the force put on the lever or the piston. For a full rig you could put a small pressure sensor between the lever and piston and compare the output with that of a hydraulic pressure sensor in the line. Or compare it against the pressure exerted on a piston.

For a cheap test put a pressure sensor in the hydraulic system somewhere and then just pull the lever with a spring balance mounted at a fixed position on the lever. Pull the lever with X amount of force (you would need to pull at a fixed angle) and check the pressure in the hydraulics.

However rubber hoses have a thick protective coating, so this should be far less likely to occur than with a braided steel hose.

All the best

Keith
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[s44678]

I know arguing with Keith will probably just end in embarrassment for me, but I'll do it anyway just to see where it gets me.

You could get a hydraulic calibration pump that is pretty damn accurate (+/- < 0.2 % I reckon) and connect it up. Assuming pressure loss through the banjos is negligible, just connect a guage to the other end, or the same end as the pump and seal the other one off. That's got to be easier that messing about with pressure sensors.

Even if you knew the exact force you are putting on the piston via the lever, you'd have to know the exact piston area to know the theoretical pressure that you are putting into the system before you could compare against actual pressure to get the efficiency wouldn't you?

Sensors and calculations is just leaving more room for error.

[Polarbear]

But if you put 1000psi in, your going to get 1000psi out (unless the hose has a hole!!!) so what is it going to prove?
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[sickpup]

[Kickstart]

[Ichy]

If you wanted to prove it on the bike you would need to machine up a brake lever replacement with marked datums or fixing points to insure you use the same position each time.

To the lever connect a load cell and a transducer to measure applied force and lever deflection.

connect a calibrated gauge directly to the master cylinder or via a steel tube, operate it loads of times and take the average to give a nominal value for applied force at a repeated deflection.

Do the same with the hose attached and either measure the output pressure at the same deflection and force or measure the amount of force and deflection required to achieve the same output pressure.


In the real world you would just use a comparator.
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[Pete.]

Braided hoses don't make any difference to the pressure in the system. If you squeeze the lever with rubber hoses the same as with braided hoses then the pressure produced is the same. Something would have to give for it not to be. If either of the types of hose could not handle the pressure then the lever would hit the bars.

The benefit you get with braided hoses s that there's less 'give' in them than in all-rubber ones (which are actually fibre reinfocrd internally just theat you can't see it). You can feel this by having a 'firmer' lever when you fit braided hoses. Of course, if you fitted new rubber hoses you'd also get a firmer lever than with the old hoses and since they are a service item they should be changed periodically anyway.

If you want a good DIY test bleed up a system with split hoses that has one braided and one rubber going to each caliper. Put a clamp on the bottom end of the rubber hose and on the top of the braided one and try to squeeze the lever. It won't move much (once the return port is covered). Now swap the hose clamps so the rubber hose is clamped at the top and the braided one at the bottom. Squeeze the lever and it won't move at all because the braided ones expand only a negligable amount.

It's all a bit academic anyway because almost all of any lever movement is down to the calipers. Take just about any system that has excessive lever travel and clamp the hoses off at the calipers and your lever travel will go solid.
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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good