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Riding with Armor

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Eddie Hitler
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PostPosted: 00:56 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Riding with Armor Reply with quote
My bike has been off the road for 2 months now, and during that period I have been doing alot of thinking about wearing extra armour underneath my jacket.

Im trying to weigh up the pro's and con's, for example, the time it takes to put on/take off, how hot will I get, what kind of extra protection I will gain etc. Thinking of the way I ride, and somewhat growing up (riding since I was 17, now almost 20), Im counting myself incredibly lucky thinking about all the scrapes I have been through, and riding alot of the time with just a jacket, gloves and helmet. (Also jeans and trainers.. Razz ).

So what do you guys/gals reckon. Im going to buy a better fitting leather jacket for summer, and im also certainly buying knee protection to go with my Tech 3's and Dragin Jeans.

The kind of armor im thinking of is the chest/back in one. Knox do a what seems to be good one which includes shoulder/elbow protection for about £150.

https://www.planet-knox.com/images/KNOX_CROSSSHIRT_09--2.jpg

Any first hand experience with something like this? Or should I just leave it and go with a good fitting leather jacket and a back protector?
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Howling TerrorOutOfOffice
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PostPosted: 01:04 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
In a similar position except i'm 42.
I run hot at the best of times so i'd be interested to hear how warm they are.

Pat
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G
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PostPosted: 01:05 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Re: Riding with Armor Reply with quote
£150 seems a lot when you can get a decent leather or textile jacket with armour for a fair bit less than that.
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mistergixer
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PostPosted: 01:06 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't think thermal transfer ribbons will help much in a crash.

I'd get some armour of some sort, probably be more useful.

Wink
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Eddie Hitler
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PostPosted: 01:08 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Re: Riding with Armor Reply with quote
G wrote:
£150 seems a lot when you can get a decent leather or textile jacket with armour for a fair bit less than that.


My problem with just buying a leather jacket is the fact the armor could move. Something like that will be tied down to me, offering greater protection.

I also like the fact my chest is protected.

But I agree, £150 is pretty steep.
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Howling TerrorOutOfOffice
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PostPosted: 01:09 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
I have a foam pad in the back of my jackets, anyone use a hard pad?

Pat
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Eddie Hitler
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PostPosted: 01:12 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Howling Terror wrote:
I have a foam pad in the back of my jackets, anyone use a hard pad?

Pat


Don't think the foam will help much. I had an insert protector with my old Hein Gericke jacket, but the problem is that it moved about the place, and I didn't trust it to be much help in a crash.

I would go for a back protector thats strapped on, rather than a jacket insert.

Last edited by Eddie Hitler on 01:31 - 25 Mar 2009; edited 1 time in total
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Howling TerrorOutOfOffice
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PostPosted: 01:22 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yeah, i'll have a trawl on the m-cross sites and see what they use.

Pat
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Tricolor
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PostPosted: 01:39 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Howling Terror wrote:
I have a foam pad in the back of my jackets, anyone use a hard pad?

Pat


A hard articulated armour should go some way to stopping hyperextension and hyperflexion of the spine.

The foam pad will be rated EN 1621-1 which is the same as elbow and shoulder armour and it takes much less energy than the EN 1621-1 test allows to be transmitted (35kn) to cause a spinal injury.

Then again, even the specific test for back protectors (EN 1621-2) is fairly dire at level 1 (18kn) and just passable at level 2 (9kn).

To put it into context the shoulder, chest and back armour for horse riding has to transmit no more than 4.5kn to pass CE certification.
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Last edited by Tricolor on 12:02 - 25 Mar 2009; edited 1 time in total
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Dr. DaveJPS
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PostPosted: 08:42 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
for riding with my old leather jacket (no armour but also no slogans) i have the A* bionic jacket tis pretty good but after 5 years the Velcro on the kidney belt has started to go
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G
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PostPosted: 08:56 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Motocross stuff you definitely don't want. Enduro stuff maybe a bit more use, but is designed for very different purposes.
A good fitting leather jacket will hold the armour in place just fine. Can't think of anyone in the club racing I've done using an armour under-suit.

I've got two enduro armour jackets, but wouldn't consider using them for protection on the road as opposed to decent leathers.

You can often get leathers altered to fit quite cheaply - a second hand one piece suit and altering to fit has cost me around £170 all in, in the past.
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Rockhopper
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PostPosted: 09:26 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tricolor wrote:
Howling Terror wrote:
I have a foam pad in the back of my jackets, anyone use a hard pad?

Pat


A hard articulated armour should go some way to stopping hyperextension and hyperflexion of the spine.



Motorcycle back protectors are not intended (or designed) to stop this type of injury.
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Kwaks
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PostPosted: 10:56 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Think I would go for a proper jacket or boots first.

I normally wear my sidis but do have a spare pair of boots which are actually pretty good for £40. A second hand jacket should ebay around £50 mark.

If the armour preys on your mind prob better sticking to knox
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 10:58 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
G wrote:
Motocross stuff you definitely don't want. Enduro stuff maybe a bit more use, but is designed for very different purposes.
A good fitting leather jacket will hold the armour in place just fine. Can't think of anyone in the club racing I've done using an armour under-suit.

I've got two enduro armour jackets, but wouldn't consider using them for protection on the road as opposed to decent leathers.

You can often get leathers altered to fit quite cheaply - a second hand one piece suit and altering to fit has cost me around £170 all in, in the past.


What G said. If the leather jacket fits your properly it won't move.

All I wear under my leathers on track is a chest and back protector. The armour in the suit takes care of the rest of me.
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Peirre oBollox
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PostPosted: 11:16 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Re: Riding with Armor Reply with quote
Eddie Hitler wrote:
G wrote:
£150 seems a lot when you can get a decent leather or textile jacket with armour for a fair bit less than that.


My problem with just buying a leather jacket is the fact the armor could move. Something like that will be tied down to me, offering greater protection.

I also like the fact my chest is protected.

But I agree, £150 is pretty steep.

Any armour is better than non, it`s also down to how much you value your ability to survive an "off". IF £150 worth of armour saves you from a life long disabilitating injury, then its £150 well spent.
if you stick a ten bob head, in a ten bob hat etc don`t expect to get great results. it sounds as though some of you are putting the contents of your wallets before your lives, and the ability to get up after a crash.
AFAIC £150 isn`t a huge amount to spend on 1-2 pieces of bike kit
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 11:24 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Re: Riding with Armor Reply with quote
Peirre o`Bollox wrote:

Any armour is better than non, it`s also down to how much you value your ability to survive an "off". IF £150 worth of armour saves you from a life long disabilitating injury, then its £150 well spent.
if you stick a ten bob head, in a ten bob hat etc don`t expect to get great results. it sounds as though some of you are putting the contents of your wallets before your lives, and the ability to get up after a crash.
AFAIC £150 isn`t a huge amount to spend on 1-2 pieces of bike kit


It is when the stuff you're looking to buy is more designed with motocross in mind that road riding.
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Tricolor
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PostPosted: 11:47 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rockhopper wrote:
Tricolor wrote:


A hard articulated armour should go some way to stopping hyperextension and hyperflexion of the spine.



Motorcycle back protectors are not intended (or designed) to stop this type of injury.


They may not be intended or designed for this purpose, but they do offer some protection from those injuries in some situations.
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Eddie Hitler
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PostPosted: 12:18 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Re: Riding with Armor Reply with quote
Big_Ham wrote:

It is when the stuff you're looking to buy is more designed with motocross in mind that road riding.


Surely the road has more hazards than motocross riding? And I ride a supermoto, so not a massive difference.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 12:23 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Re: Riding with Armor Reply with quote
Eddie Hitler wrote:

Surely the road has more hazards than motocross riding? And I ride a supermoto, so not a massive difference.


Not the number of hazards, more the type. I think you're better of getting a good quality leather jacket that will have the armour to protect you, as well as protect you from abrasion if you slide down the road.
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Kal
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PostPosted: 12:32 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rockhopper wrote:
Tricolor wrote:
A hard articulated armour should go some way to stopping hyperextension and hyperflexion of the spine.


Motorcycle back protectors are not intended (or designed) to stop this type of injury.


Really? My underarmour locks before my spine can hyperextend

For the record I have an under armour jacket with interlocking plates over the spine, padded chest area, kidney belt, shoulder and elbow armour.

I wore it religously during the early part of my riding career and it is begining to show with various tears in the material. These days it only comes out when I am having a low confidence day.
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Dom
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PostPosted: 12:34 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
MX/enduro armour doesn't make sense for the road. It's generally not designed to offer any abrasive resistance and wearing it with road gear on top is going to be inconvenient, boiling and probably offer little if any benefit over decent road gear with built in armour anyway.
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Eddie Hitler
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PostPosted: 12:34 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Re: Riding with Armor Reply with quote
Big_Ham wrote:

Not the number of hazards, more the type. I think you're better of getting a good quality leather jacket that will have the armour to protect you, as well as protect you from abrasion if you slide down the road.


I think thats the route im going to take. Thumbs Up Good fitting leather jacket with a good back protector.
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G
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Re: Riding with Armor Reply with quote
First off, Motocross gear is not generally designed to be 'armour' specifically, but instead designed to prevent rocks throw up from other riders hitting you and in some cases prevent your body from moving in ways it shouldn't when crashing (knee and kneck braces).

Peirre o`Bollox wrote:
it sounds as though some of you are putting the contents of your wallets before your lives, and the ability to get up after a crash.

Too many people are happy to throw money at safety equipment without thought to whether or not it will actually be helpful.
The obvious example is where someone will be happy to spend £450 on a top of the range lid without trying it on, when a £50 lid that fits better may well offer better protection, yet they believe they've got the best possible protection and feel superiour to those with cheap helmets that obviously don't value their heads!
Another obvious example is people wearing motocross lids on supermotos. I'm pretty sure that this fashion accessory can actually do a fair bit more damage to your head than a normal road helmet when crashing on the road - there's a reason they're designed that way for off-road, but seems rather silly to choose a poorer design that doesn't offer you any (non-tart) advantages.

Spending lots of money should not be your primary concern when buying safety equipment, even if it has a nice placebo equipment.
Worst biking injury I've had was with top-of-the-range items and would have been no worse with botton end stuff. Next/similary bad was with a moderately expensive but ill fitting bit of kit and would have been much better if I'd kept my old knackered several-times-crashed, but well fitting kit, I reckon.

Enduro armour is not designed to handle sliding down the road - while it probably will be ok under a leather jacket, I can see it quite possible that with an ill-fitting jacket it'll still move around. It's designed to handle impacts of different types and can move around your arm if gripped (as the inside of a jacket can do when it's too loose.
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LeeR
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PostPosted: 21:00 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've been riding with armour since I got back on bikes in Oct '06, on a mate's recommendation I bought a Knox Ricochet 8 plate which was pretty good (see: which back armour??? thread).

I've since upgraded to a Knox Aegis 8 plate and bought their new chest protector which is so much better than the original as it doesn't secure to the back protector straps with velcro, which ruined them.

They'll set you back around £105 in total, and I agree with Itchy's comments on the knee armour thread that the Hein Gericke Hiprotec shoulder/elbow/knee/hip armour is so much more comfortable than the Knox Advance X which I used to recommend.
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G
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PostPosted: 21:21 - 25 Mar 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Has anyone found the 'chest protector' of any use?
Have them on the off-road stuff (where roost can get quite nasty), but not sure they'd help much on the road?

I've been badly winded a few times when racing, but don't think they'd have helped. Think I broke a few ribs (not picked up at the time) in my big crash, but again, don't think that'd have helped.
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