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Alabama Blacksnake
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: 18:49 - 20 Apr 2009    Post subject: So I have a friend..... Reply with quote
Whos just put his bike back together after a long time. Its ready for a good blast but sadly has no MOT or Tax.

If my good friend was to insure the bike and the took it for a razz.

Obviosly it would be illegal in the fact that it has no Tax or MOT but if he was to get pulled as he is insured (the big one) would the penalty for no tax/mot be points or just a fixed fine??

Would the insurance refuse cover as the bike was being used in an "unroadworthy" state....??

Cheers,
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Bikes i've owned: mobylette ----- Ts 50er ------ GS 400e ------ CB250n superdream ------r6 ------ bandit 400 ----- 2005 kx 125
Bikes i have:dtr125 field bike that doesnt not seem to die!!! 1992 gsxr 750 Very Happy
trevoriv said: Leathers are like teenage girls, the tighter the better.
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t121anf
World Chat Champion



Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: 19:03 - 20 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
answer should be on here

https://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069870
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Legsy.
Nova Slayer



Joined: 23 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: 19:20 - 20 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pretty sure your insurance is invalid without a current MOT, but may be wrong!
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Robby
Dirty Old Man



Joined: 16 May 2002
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PostPosted: 19:22 - 20 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Your good friend could insure the bike, then ride it for it's MOT.

Of course, MOT garage might be 20 miles away.

Make sure it's a pre-booked MOT.
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Alabama Blacksnake
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: 19:40 - 20 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thats what he thought off doing as it does need a MOT so he was going to book it in tomorrow. The nearest MOT station sadly is 20 miles away.

Whats the deal with tax thought as the dvla didnt state anything?

cheers
____________________
Bikes i've owned: mobylette ----- Ts 50er ------ GS 400e ------ CB250n superdream ------r6 ------ bandit 400 ----- 2005 kx 125
Bikes i have:dtr125 field bike that doesnt not seem to die!!! 1992 gsxr 750 Very Happy
trevoriv said: Leathers are like teenage girls, the tighter the better.
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sickpup
Old Timer



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 19:46 - 20 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you haven't got the balls to even talk about breaking the law you are going to soil yourself if/when you get caught.
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Robby
Dirty Old Man



Joined: 16 May 2002
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PostPosted: 20:31 - 20 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
kicker2508 wrote:
Thats what he thought off doing as it does need a MOT so he was going to book it in tomorrow. The nearest MOT station sadly is 20 miles away.

Whats the deal with tax thought as the dvla didnt state anything?

cheers


You don't need a current MOT or tax to ride to and from a pre-booked MOT test. I think you're meant to have something in writing confirming the appointment, although you'd probably get away with calling them if you got pulled.
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wristjob
World Chat Champion



Joined: 29 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 20:52 - 20 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
if "your friend" thinks the bike is roadwothy then just mot it.
wont take long then all you can be done for is no tax(non endorsable fine)
get caught with no mot they give you 3 pts for that and 3 pts for every defect they find.is the bike really ready to be picked at by the cops?
if it is then mot it.
see where this is going?
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Noxious89123
World Chat Champion



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 20 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
MOT cost me £28 and took less than 1/2 an hour, so here's no excuse not to have one!

Again, tax is very easy to sort, just do it online. Even if the disc hasn't arrived, as long as you've paid for it, you should be ok. They allow a certain time for it o arrive anyways. (So if you tax your bike on thursday, you can ride it on friday, even if the disc hasn't arrived.
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'06 Honda CBR125RW-6 ~ '00 Honda CBR600F-Y ~ '07 Honda CBR600RR-7 ~ Bikeless Sad
'53 Ford Ka 1.3 ~ '03 Vauxhall Astra SRi 1.8 ~ '52 Vauxhall Astra SRi 2.2 ~ '53 Vauxhall Astra GSi
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 21:13 - 20 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Seems sensible not to admit to breaking the law on here, when there's people that have reported others to the police for such things. Not that it makes much difference in this case really, I admit.

For the OP, your friend would undoubtedly run over many land-kittens with his 'illegals' machine!
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t121anf
World Chat Champion



Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: 21:22 - 20 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
wristjob wrote:
if "your friend" thinks the bike is roadwothy then just mot it.
wont take long then all you can be done for is no tax(non endorsable fine)
get caught with no mot they give you 3 pts for that and 3 pts for every defect they find.is the bike really ready to be picked at by the cops?
if it is then mot it.
see where this is going?


where did you get your info on points? the site i posted as no mot as a non-endorsable offence which is all i have ever heard it is.
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 21:26 - 20 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Noxious89123 wrote:
MOT cost me £28 and took less than 1/2 an hour, so here's no excuse not to have one!
20 miles ride either side could easily add an hour on depending on the bike and roads - and this is presuming it opens when he's not working, so may need to take up to a day off, if his work is like that, which may need to be booked well in advance.

I thought no-MOT was non-endorsable too.

It should be noted that there are more and more ANPR systems around, making it much 'safer' to have a bit of paper with 'tax' on it than not, yet be riding a bike in a dangerous condition.
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Tricolor
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 09 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: 21:34 - 20 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
wristjob wrote:
then all you can be done for is no tax(non endorsable fine)
get caught with no mot they give you 3 pts for that and 3 pts for every defect they find.is the bike really ready to be picked at by the cops?


B*ll*cks!

No Tax is technically a DVLA only issue and the police should refer it to them, however a non-endorsable FPN for not displaying is probably on the cards.

No MOT is a £60 non-endorsable FPN or up to £1000 fine if referred to court.

If the police start picking at the bike then it's either a VDRS notice for the defects or a prohibition notice if it's deemed unroadworthy.

Of, course with multiple offences there is an increased chance of it being referred to court, but even then it's only ever going to be a fine in this case.
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wristjob
World Chat Champion



Joined: 29 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 22:52 - 20 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tricolor wrote:
wristjob wrote:
then all you can be done for is no tax(non endorsable fine)
get caught with no mot they give you 3 pts for that and 3 pts for every defect they find.is the bike really ready to be picked at by the cops?


B*ll*cks!

No Tax is technically a DVLA only issue and the police should refer it to them, however a non-endorsable FPN for not displaying is probably on the cards.

No MOT is a £60 non-endorsable FPN or up to £1000 fine if referred to court.

If the police start picking at the bike then it's either a VDRS notice for the defects or a prohibition notice if it's deemed unroadworthy.

Of, course with multiple offences there is an increased chance of it being referred to court, but even then it's only ever going to be a fine in this case.

so if said bike has a number of defects lets say a bald tyre.if they want they can give you a 3 pt fixed penalty.
lets say no brake light 3 pts if they want.
no functioning headlight? they can do you for that.(if there is no headlight then they cant)
ok i will concede that no mot is a non endorsable offence (it may or may not be i dont know)but do you really want the cops picking at your bike for the sake of less than £30 for an mot?
yes they might issue you with a rectify fault ticket,to get that sorted you take your bike to an mot station,see where this is going?
if the bike is roadworthy then an mot is 30 mins out of your day and its sorted.
if its not roadworthy then you really shouldnt have it on the road.
lets say you get pulled for a very minor offence that you could talk your way out of.then the cop finds you have no mot ,you think you ride away or do you think you will be walking?
give them nothing.
then they can only deal with the trivial 180mph though town that they "saw" you do.

Last edited by wristjob on 22:57 - 20 Apr 2009; edited 1 time in total
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 22:55 - 20 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Can't see no MOT making much difference. When I got stopped ages ago, as far they knew, I had an MOT (was actually just over the three years from new, so I didn't), but they still tried to do me for my projector beam headlight because it was 'too small'. It was e-marked and perfectly legal for road use (though the mount made from wood and a computer case may not have been.)

Basically, if the police feel like being arses, they will regardless, I suspect.
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Tricolor
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 09 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: 00:24 - 21 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
wristjob wrote:

so if said bike has a number of defects lets say a bald tyre.if they want they can give you a 3 pt fixed penalty.
lets say no brake light 3 pts if they want.
no functioning headlight? they can do you for that.(if there is no headlight then they cant)
ok i will concede that no mot is a non endorsable offence (it may or may not be i dont know)but do you really want the cops picking at your bike for the sake of less than £30 for an mot?
yes they might issue you with a rectify fault ticket,to get that sorted you take your bike to an mot station,see where this is going?
if the bike is roadworthy then an mot is 30 mins out of your day and its sorted.
if its not roadworthy then you really shouldnt have it on the road.
lets say you get pulled for a very minor offence that you could talk your way out of.then the cop finds you have no mot ,you think you ride away or do you think you will be walking?
give them nothing.
then they can only deal with the trivial 180mph though town that they "saw" you do.


First of all I am not condoning not having an MOT and I was working on the assumption of possible penalties for a roadworthy and insured motorcycle lacking MOT an Tax.

If someone wants to take an unroadworthy vehicle on the road then IMHO they deserve all they get, but the lack of an MOT does not an unroadworthy vehicle make. Nor does an MOT make a vehicle roadworthy.

Yes, major defects such as defective brakes and tyres are indeed endorseable offences, but it's a very, very, limited list of items, points cannot be issued for every defect that takes a copper fancy or, indeed, for having no MOT.

If the vehicle has major defects it will be prohibition notice, some points and a walk home. If it's just a case of insurance with no MOT and Tax* then there is little chance of it being seized.
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Kal
World Chat Champion



Joined: 02 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: 00:37 - 21 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
robby wrote:
You don't need a current MOT or tax to ride to and from a pre-booked MOT test. I think you're meant to have something in writing confirming the appointment, although you'd probably get away with calling them if you got pulled.


VERA 1994, Schedule 2 Paragraph 22 says nothing about how close the MOT station has to be, or anything about a written appointment - just a prebooked appt. So as long as you are booked into their diary before leaving you are legal. I have personally moved vehicles all over the country on this legislation and carry a print out to prevent arguements.

VERA covers tax and MOT status.

Roadworthy'ness is a different issue, so you'd be be sure that the vehicles critical componants are safe if you are going to do this.

DSA Endosements Capsule*
CU10 Using a vehicle with defective brakes 3
CU20 Causing or likely to cause danger by reason of use of unsuitable vehicle or using a vehicle with parts or accessories (excluding brakes, steering or tyres) in a dangerous condition 3
CU30 Using a vehicle with defective tyre(s) 3
CU40 Using a vehicle with defective steering 3


Noxious89123 wrote:
They allow a certain time for it o arrive anyways. (So if you tax your bike on thursday, you can ride it on friday, even if the disc hasn't arrived..


An individual officer *may* let it slide but technically you could be done for not displaying a VED disc which is a seperate offense to not having one.


* This isn't the complete list, I have one somewhere I keep meaning to clean up and post online...
____________________
Kal...
I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It Ya Like To (HOON IT!).
1984 GB250 Clubman,1983 CB250N Superdream, 1999 GPZ500S
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The Disapproving Brit
World Chat Champion



Joined: 10 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: 07:20 - 21 Apr 2009    Post subject: Re: So I have a friend..... Reply with quote
kicker2508 wrote:
Whos just put his bike back together after a long time. Its ready for a good blast but sadly has no MOT or Tax.

If my good friend was to insure the bike and the took it for a razz.

Obviosly it would be illegal in the fact that it has no Tax or MOT but if he was to get pulled as he is insured (the big one) would the penalty for no tax/mot be points or just a fixed fine??

Would the insurance refuse cover as the bike was being used in an "unroadworthy" state....??

Cheers,


Insurance: As long as you can get someone to cover you, you're covered. All the stuff about insurance not being valid if you break some T&C is myth - as long as you've paid for a policy, the insurance company have to provide the legal minimum cover. If you claim and they say they wouldn't have provided cover had they known the state the bike was in, they can refuse to provide more than the legal minimum cover, and they can pursue you to recover anything they have to pay out, but that's a seperate issue - as far as the law is concerned, you're covered.

Tax: Not a police issue, but DVLA can and do work with police doing random checks - i.e. you get pulled, plod look for anything they can do you for, and DVLA are already on hand to take the bike unless you insure it there and then, plus fees of (I think) about £200

MOT: Non-endorsable but will probably result in plod going over the bike with a fine toothed comb, which is rarely a good thing. As said, simple answer is to book yourself into an MOT, so that you're on the way to it when you get pulled. Be warned that if you're heading away from the test centre when you're pulled, you'll need to practice your "Oh, I'm glad you're here - I'm totally lost" line.
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Cigaro
World Chat Champion



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: 07:40 - 21 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kal wrote:
An individual officer *may* let it slide but technically you could be done for not displaying a VED disc which is a seperate offense to not having one.


I'm not so sure about this. I think they changed the law so if you've paid for tax, you can drive the vehicle.
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Kal
World Chat Champion



Joined: 02 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: 08:19 - 21 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
TheBassJunky wrote:
Kal wrote:
An individual officer *may* let it slide but technically you could be done for not displaying a VED disc which is a seperate offense to not having one.


I'm not so sure about this. I think they changed the law so if you've paid for tax, you can drive the vehicle.


If they have then it was in the last couple of months... and I'm not seeing that in the Acts of Parliment for the last couple of years.
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Kal...
I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It Ya Like To (HOON IT!).
1984 GB250 Clubman,1983 CB250N Superdream, 1999 GPZ500S
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Cigaro
World Chat Champion



Joined: 28 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: 12:37 - 21 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://www.dvla.gov.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/archive2008/280808_09.aspx

Quote:
The first of the changes has come about because DVLA has found that towards the end of the month, many motorists taxing their vehicle online or by phone do not complete the transaction when they realise that their tax disc may not be received in time for the 1st of the following month. As a result, from the 1st of September 2008, those buying their vehicle tax online, by phone or by post will be able to legally continue to drive their vehicles for up to 5 days while they wait for their new tax disc to arrive. This will only apply where the new tax disc has been applied for before the current one expires and motorists should continue to display the expired disc on their vehicle, until the new one arrives. This will be of great benefit to those motorists who have to leave buying their tax disc until the last day of the month, because they are waiting to be paid. They can now still do that, but also get the benefits of taxing online, by phone or by post.The first of the changes has come about because DVLA has found that towards the end of the month, many motorists taxing their vehicle online or by phone do not complete the transaction when they realise that their tax disc may not be received in time for the 1st of the following month. As a result, from the 1st of September 2008, those buying their vehicle tax online, by phone or by post will be able to legally continue to drive their vehicles for up to 5 days while they wait for their new tax disc to arrive. This will only apply where the new tax disc has been applied for before the current one expires and motorists should continue to display the expired disc on their vehicle, until the new one arrives. This will be of great benefit to those motorists who have to leave buying their tax disc until the last day of the month, because they are waiting to be paid. They can now still do that, but also get the benefits of taxing online, by phone or by post.
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Kal
World Chat Champion



Joined: 02 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: 13:55 - 21 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Good find. Thumbs Up Karma


Be nice to see the regulations where it is codified as well as the press release, just to keep jobsworths at bay...
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Kal...
I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It I Like To Hoon It Hoon It Ya Like To (HOON IT!).
1984 GB250 Clubman,1983 CB250N Superdream, 1999 GPZ500S

Last edited by Kal on 14:17 - 21 Apr 2009; edited 1 time in total
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TheDonUK
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Joined: 20 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: 14:08 - 21 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
The DVLA can seize your bike on the spot for no tax, i dont know if the police would or could call them out to do it but bare that in mind...
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[Current Bikes - GSXR-750 K5 & C90-97 ] [Previous Bikes: Runner 125, YBR 125, GS500, Bandit 600, Hornet 600, ZX6R-99, C90-99, R1-99, XT600E-04, GSXR-750 K4, CRF250L '16]
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Tricolor
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 09 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: 15:44 - 21 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
TheDonUK wrote:
The DVLA can seize your bike on the spot for no tax, i dont know if the police would or could call them out to do it but bare that in mind...


The police are also authorised by the Home Secretary to seize vehicles for no Tax and did so when initially given the power, but AFAIK most forces no longer do this and just refer the matter to the DVLA later.

Of course, you could be stopped during a joint operation with Police, DVLA, HMRC et al.
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Pete.
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: 16:48 - 21 Apr 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
I seem to recall that no MOT is endorsable since last year. anyone else hear that?
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