What makes good/skilled or a bad/unskilled rider as such?

[G]

Something different for everyone to argue over :

In your opinion what classifies a 'good' / 'skilled' or a 'bad' / 'unskilled' rider as such?

For instance, some people might consider someone that filters through motorway traffic at twice the speed limit a good rider, while others someone that can take some 'twisties' faster than their fellows. Again, others might consider being as safe as possible within reasonable limits or maybe it's fast track riding that makes a good rider.

Just interested to hear people's opinions.
Put it up as a poll for interest, though I realise you can't categorise such things too much as most people will probably consider several different elements if not all. So reply with what you consider to be the important aspects from your perspective.

Also, what do you consider to be the major signs of a 'bad' or 'unskilled' rider? I'm sure all of the categories listed could also be listed for this as well as many others. While the poll is about good riders, this might be the more interesting aspect.

[billy whizz]

I think a bad rider is someone who brings biking into disrepute, i:e pulling stupid stunts through a street crowded with young children! that makes me mad!
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[Sparks!]

I can't really vote as I can't categorize it down from one option.

A good rider in my eyes, is someone who is:

1) smooth, controlled and effortless
2) very fast, but mostly by planning ahead and thinking!
3) someone who is comfortable on a bike and will happily move about/mess around etc
4) someone who can happily ride around town/slow speed without wobbling all over the place

and

5) someone who can stunt properly stunts are good they are big and they are clever, crap power wheelies on sports bikes only impress 15 year old girls standing outside a school. (but you got to start somewhere!)

You don't need to be a great stunter to be a good rider though, really it comes down to your riding style and type of bike. But in general it's the first four I listed.

That basically sums it up for me, everything in my opinion comes down to smoothness, if your smooth and in control you can go faster on the roads, feel more comfortable and take the right lines on track without braking harshly etc all over the place.

I like smooth

Oh, and again, being fast doesn't make you a good rider. It's so hard to summarize this to be honest as I keep remember different ways my post can be interpreted.

Being slow also doesn't make you a bad rider!

A bad rider in my opinion is someone who isn't comfortable on a bike and isn't fully in control, someone that's not as observant as they should be and not very smooth. In a way though, here where I contradict myself, this doesn't neccesarily make you a bad rider, maybe just inexperienced and still learning.

But then theres a difference between bad and "not very good" or "inexperienced" and it's hard to judge someone as bad when they might just be inexperienced.

So it's also difficult to tell who's bad and who is just inexperienced too. There are many variables and it's hard to judge

And another thing, not everyone can be good at everything, some may be brilliant around town, at filtering safely and general town riding, but be slow and wobbly around the twisty roads, braking on corners etc. And vice versa.

I guess then, a "good" rider is someone with an equal balance of all types of road riding! But being good doesn't make you safe, does it?

aargh G you've asked the most difficult to answer question I've ever seen.
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[Smoto Bob]

Difficult question of the year award for g!! and that includes all my exam questions.

Skilled rider would say Stunt riding can take suburb bike control skills, most people no offence can ride a bike fast.

A GOOD rider would defiantly be the Advance safety riding ect. I consider my self competent and do the correct checks ect but am still only young ect and have on occasion taken chances unnecessarily that i would not expect a good rider to do(who hasn't).

Weaving through traffic on the motorway is STUPID, sorry, you lot are mad at that .
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[Kickstart]

Hi

One who is alive and a smooth rider.

All the best

Keith
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[Bendy]

I think several of the choices can be signs of a good rider, but can also be signs of someone who's just prepared to push it a bit further than they really should, and thus could be more a case of balls and luck than skill.

So, 'safe riding' is my choice.

I'm impressed by people who can do the 'impressive' stuff - the stunts, the fast track riding and so on... but then I ask myself "Would I get on the back of a bike with that person?" and in some cases the answer is no.

A 'good rider' is someone who has the whole package, but knows when to use it and when not to.

Bad riding? Having no regard for the other things on the road and realising the consequences of your actions.

[Sparks!]

[McJamweasel]

It can be a mix of all those listed. Someone who is good at one may not e good at them all. For example - Rossi is possibly the best track rider ever - yet stick him on a cb500 in london and he may well be a danger to himself and everyone around him.
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[Stew]

A safe rider is a good rider IMO, whether they are fast or slow regardless of experience. Experience usually makes riders safer as they have a better knowledge of what can go wrong.
My view of a skilled rider is someone who knows their abilities and is able to use the bike in such a way to make fast and safe progress. I regard myself as a 'competent' rider and if someone overtakes me I don't instantly think they are a nutter or anything like that.
Town riding is another skill which can be a hard one to judge. Personally I don't have much experience for full on city riding (the towns round here don't compare to many massive cities and their congestion). You can see riders who filter safely yet get cut up by cars from all directions, and you can see school kids that make good progress on their 50cc scooters by showing little or no regard to other traffic or their own safety.
Again, stunt riding can show a rider is skilled yet if they use those skills in the wrong place it would make them a bad (road) rider.

Just tonight I have been out riding with a couple of mates who passed their tests around the same time as me. As I was riding with them I was able to use the front rider (Nige) as a gauge for the upcoming corners, he knew the road better than me and I felt like I was riding a lot faster than I would have on my own, probably 20mph faster into each corner. If I were leading that group we would have been slower, making me believe that they are more competent/confident riders than I am.

And at the poll for 'going round a roundabout fast enough to make sparks', this in itself doesn't make a good/skilled rider but is seen as a 'biking must'. In itself it does little more than provide a bit of fun for many bikers (I know I enjoy doing it) but can help new people realise just how capable their machine at going round corners. Roundabouts are good because they allow you to get used to the speed you can corner and the 'corner' isnt over before you have realised what you can do. Generally industrial estate roundabouts are good simply because it removes the act from general road traffic and lets you learn in relative safety (and loads of us from the forum do it, don't we )

Good question btw G.
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[Josh]

Almost all of the skills listed make up a "good" rider, if they are done safely.
For example, I was riding through the local twisties with some other 125s I met at a petrol station, I was in front making fine progress, corners at 40-50 nice and smooth, the aprilla behind me was matching my speed (I say I met them, I spoke to them in passing, and they tried to follow me home) but on the roads towards my house he was swinging way too wide on the corners, now while we were both "fast on the twisties" he would have been looking at instant wipe out had a bus been coming around a corner, or even a van..... his friend, who caught us up at the next village, was going a fair bit slower, but staying well within his riding "skill" level and being safe.
So in my mind, it isn't the fact that you can do something that makes you skilled, it is the fact that you can do it safely and within your own personal skill limits.
And the idiot, after getting beeped by a car as he swung wide around another corner, seemed to slow down a bit, I then made me "get away" as I don't like to be seen as riding with morons, and knowing the roads better than them, and being able to corner better, I was able to get in just as the amber changed at a roundabout, and they were stopped, and I was away.

But ummm yeah, I voted the first one, as safety/knowing your own limits is probably the most important skill that will make a good rider/a good rider in training.
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[carvell]

Track and road are completly different.

A good rider on the track would be someone like Riossi, for obvious reasons, but as someone said, plant him in London on a CB500 and he could be the worst rider ever.

In my eyes the safest riders on the roads are Police riders and civilians with a high advanced riding standard. The number of miles a Police rider clocks up a year along with the speeds that they have to ride at speaks for itself. Because of dad's work I have seen them out on patrol a fair bit, their smoothness is amazing, they can ride 200 miles without putting their foot down just by anticipating what traffic is going to do, their overtaking manouvours and safe riding at speed are also amazing!

That, in my opinion, is a good rider.

I've asked dad if he can sweet talk them into going out for a ride with me and giving me tips and techniques on just general advanced riding and how to stay alive - should be good.
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[Visitor Q]

I said fast riding on the lanes, cos thats where not only balls but observation and prudence come into play, i mean i was reasonably fast but alot of people comment on alot of slowing for certain corners, then id point out gravel/amount of room on road ergo car would likely be in middle of road etc.
My dad is an appalling rider, and the only time i make damn sure im in full gear is when he gives me a lift, last time he kept leaning into oncoming traffic round lots of blind bends on a very dangerous stretch of road called rectory lane (it got shut recently then reopened so its a tad manic at the moment) and when i mentioned this to him he barely noticed. Its one of them roads that you can take the left handers fast but the right handers unless you counter lean which on principal i hate doing anyway are quite dangerous. I think we have all had at some point some car spring out in the middle of a right hander inches away from our head. Not good

But generally the best bikers are people who know when to put on speed, can ride completely safely most of the time, could cane the nuts off most R1 riders with a battered pan european round the twisties, and most importantly can react correctly to situations.

So my bet would be any riding instructors or police riders, they can ride safely most of the time, pedantically so if they wish, but i can tell you now when they need to shift....
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[Ninja]

secret option number 'x' - none of the above!

Safe riding to 'advanced' standards - not necessarily
Good stunts / twatting about - 'twatting' says it all
Fast on Twisty back lanes - probably more indicative of lack of consideration and forethought
Fast through urban traffic - overdoing the speed differential between you and other road users is a recipe for disaster
Fast through motorway traffic - same as previous
Good drag racing times, harder than it seems, so we're told - makes for 'good drag racing times'; nothing else!
Fast lap times on track - as previous; might make for a good race but nothing else
Owning a 'sorted' bike (be it with Motrax or Bitubo) - money makes a rider? I think not!
Going around roundabouts fast enough to make sparks - so the rider can get low on right handers - says nothing about the rest of his riding vocabulary?

Awareness of his environment and due consideration of the factors in which he finds himself - that's what makes a good rider - a skilled rider; similarly but to a greater degree of understanding. Bad/ unskilled - anything less than that.
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James
4 wheels transport the Body ... 2 wheels transport the SOUL

[Laura]

Right in my opinion I think that A good rider is a safe one but as well it can i include a lot of things.

I respect people who can do stunts well as this requires a amount of control over the machine for example keeping at the balence point the correct amount of lean.

This also goes for track riding as again control over machine concentrating on what is coming up thinking ahead.

But up most I think a safe rider is one like bendy who is not competitive and rides for herself and couldn't care less about keeping up with people etc.
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[ZZ-Rse]

The fast through traffic option gave me a laugh. There's something rather amusing about those people on high powered bikes that think 'fast' means finding a 3 foot gap between cars and gunning the bike hard (point and squirt) until they meet the next blockage, when sitting at a steady 10-20 mph and planning your route will usually get you there much, much faster.

[Robby]

When it comes to good riding, in my eyes the best rider is the one who is fast and smooth, but at no time has to make a dangerous move such as using the wrong side of he road, overtaking with no room etc.

So its police riders, advanced riders. Someone who could complete a twisty course on a pan euro as quick as someone on an R1, but who does by barely touching the brakes and using little throttle. The pan euro guys comes back having used a fraction of the fuel and much less tired.

And bikes, or any vehicle, over taking close pisses me off. When driving, you should never make any manouvre that causes any other road user to have to change speed or direction - wait for a gap. In the last few days I've had a bike pull out on me without looking, and I had a stream of sports bikes out for an eveningrun overtake me approaching a blind corner. I had to brake, the car coming round the corner really had to brake.

[RiderOfTheSto...]

All of the above plus someone who is aware of what is going on around them and who has vision and foresight of the dangers. In my opinion too many bikers crash because they are going too fast to be able to calculate the risk they're taking and cannot control the bike if something goes wrong. I believe good riders can assess the situation quickly and are not so surprised when something goes wrong. Obviously there are many situations that are impossible to get out of no matter how fast you are going.

Cars are usually the fault for many crashes but at the same time bikers pass the blame too easily. We all know how stupid drivers can be. Good riders always take that into consideration!

[Jinx]

IMHO, a good rider is one who riders with consideration for other road users, yet knows that other road users are likely to be completely unaware of her/his existence,
who rides smoothly,
aware of all around, from the road condition to other users to potential hazards,
is capable of riding fast but doesn't always feel the need to do so,
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[Ninja]

kindof related to the thread - I was making my way home yesterday along the A12, driving my car and 'making progress' (It's a fairly quick motor.) Zipping up to 90+ where the road and traffic allowed, it was mainly single carriageway so this was rare but there were the odd dual bits thrown in.

I was having to drive fairly 'actively' and was aware of a VFR800 approaching - filtering past the cars at a fairly relaxed pace, and he eventually sailed past. But whenever the road ahead was clear or the road dual, he stuck to the speed limit - or thereabouts 70-80.

At these points I was passing him - strange passing 'large' bike in a car - but as soon as we approached other traffic he was serenely filtering again.

Sorry for the ramble - the point was; I was working at making progress, yet the bike was effortlessly doing so . . .

ahem, where was I going with this?
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James
4 wheels transport the Body ... 2 wheels transport the SOUL

[mazza]

Depends on what context. Technically speaking, anybody who can do knee-downs, wheelies, weave in and out of traffic at speed is technically a good rider. However, looked at it another way, he'd be unsafe, be a risk taker (risking on occassions other people's lives) etc.

So a good rider is someone who can do all that stuff (at the right time and right place) but keep a lid on it when in a potentially dangerous situation.

[Kris]

Me

Nuff said
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[MarJay]

A 'good' rider is, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who makes whatever type of riding they choose look easy.

However, the bikers that I most respect are ones who I would consider a mixture of the wise rider (advanced, police etc) and the good rider.

So if you can do stunts on the back streets, but you use your superior balance and reactions for unexpected road situations. If you have very few unexpected situations because you anticipate and observe, then in my eyes you are a good rider.
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[Korn]

In my view how good a rider you are is determined by how much control you have over your bike, how aware you are of your situation, and how well you can plan your actions - be it through intuition or experience.
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[1cyl]

I think a good rider is someone who holds there road position when riding with others, especially through towns, instead of constantly kaining it past then stopping letting everyone pass, before kaining past again.

I think a bad rider is one that constantly want attention by wheelieing all the time and in stupid places, like in town or while in front of me, because if they bin it, they are likely to wipe me or someone else out too, and I think wheelies are much better and more impressive if you can do one massive one for ages just once in a while, on a nice open road.

A bad rider is someone thats only been on the road a short while but think they are really good and try to ride like rossi, and boast about how they took this and that roundabout at 70, they are the worst, because they are far to confident.

Riders that kain it everywhere.


Riders that don't keep a check on where the other bikes they are with are.

Riders that backfire too much, it just gets annoying.

I have a mate who i think is an excellent rider, however, i also have a mate whos a fricken headcase, but you just get used to it don't you.
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[MarJay]

398cc, sounds like you ride with the wrong people!
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Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.