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| Pie-Roe |
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Pie-Roe
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 Posted: 19:07 - 29 Apr 2009  Post subject: The difference between making money illegally and stealing. |
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Discuss.
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| The Artist |
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The Artist
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| Posted: 19:12 - 29 Apr 2009 Post subject: |
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Stealing is removing money or an item in someone's possessions without them knowing e.g. they have back turned or you burgle them.
Making money illegally could be called de-frauding someone. Deceiving someone into handing over cash for inferior/non-existent products.
To make money illegally someone else has to be involved and they have to be willing to participate but you deceive them.
I think...  |
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| Polo |
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Polo
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| Pie-Roe |
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Pie-Roe
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| Posted: 19:28 - 29 Apr 2009 Post subject: |
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| Minty wrote: | Selling drugs V pinching wallets.
/Discuss |
Exactly what I was hoping someone would say.
Pyro
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| The Artist |
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The Artist
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Matthie
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| The Original Muzza |
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The Original Muzza
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| s44678 |
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s44678
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| hellkat |
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hellkat
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| Posted: 09:55 - 30 Apr 2009 Post subject: |
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When I was maiding, I used to call it "honestly earnt dirty money" ... and used to revel in spending it 
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| GhostRider |
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GhostRider
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Posted: 18:04 - 30 Apr 2009  Post subject: |
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| Muzza wrote: |
However, hard drugs tend to be weaned into the users system, and the dealer can exploit this in order to make his monetary gains. This is not moral.
Bad analogy time: You might as well be stealing someones beloved dog and selling it back to them to gain money. |
Disagree, don't remember the last time a dealer came to me, placed the nuzzle of a loaded 9mm to my forehead and said "I heard you wanted to buy some crack?".
People have a freedom of choice, and whilst I find crackheads etc frankly disgusting specimens of the human race, the moral issues rest with the person who decides to take those drugs.
GhostRider
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| Suitor_Stu |
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Suitor_Stu
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| The Original Muzza |
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The Original Muzza
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| Posted: 18:27 - 30 Apr 2009 Post subject: |
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| GhostRider wrote: | Disagree, don't remember the last time a dealer came to me, placed the nuzzle of a loaded 9mm to my forehead and said "I heard you wanted to buy some crack?".
People have a freedom of choice, and whilst I find crackheads etc frankly disgusting specimens of the human race, the moral issues rest with the person who decides to take those drugs.
GhostRider |
So you think most junkies just sat there one day "Hmm I think I'll stick some smack in my veins today". Chances are they were on something lighter and the dealer gave them a freebie of heroin to smoke, over time they became dependent and started importing it into their veins. This isn't the case with 100% of addicts, but you will find a number that started off in such a situation.
Worse still are those who became addicted to NHS subscribed painkillers, which have a limit as to how long a patient can recieve such treatment, and of course when you can't get licit drugs, where else do you turn? Obviously these examples aren't fault of the dealer directly, but they can exploit the addictions of others and "acquire" the drugs the people want. Who is to blame here though? The NHS who provided them with painkillers in the first place? The dealer who provided them with an alternative afterwards? Or the addict, who once genuinely needed them and has now developed a physical addiction?
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| warped one |
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| Blue_SV650S |
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Blue_SV650S
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| Posted: 18:48 - 30 Apr 2009 Post subject: |
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| The Original Muzza |
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The Original Muzza
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| Posted: 18:52 - 30 Apr 2009 Post subject: |
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| Blue_SV650S wrote: |
Freebie or not, it's still down to the drugie that takes the stuff isn't it!!!  .... its not like they don't know what the stuff does or that it is addictive!! If you don't want drugs to define you, then why chuck it in your mouth/pipe/veins to start with??
The only person to blame there is the weak/needy person that chose a life of drugs to start with!! As you pointed out, its likely or at least possible to end in a downward spiral ... but everyone knows this before they take the first puff/pill/line/needle right?  |
FFS, the point is the dealer is IMMORAL, not that the user is a saint. I couldn't give two shits about the retard that takes the smack, but the person supplying them isn't really above a petty thief is he/she?
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| GhostRider |
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GhostRider
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| Posted: 19:02 - 30 Apr 2009 Post subject: |
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| Muzza wrote: |
So you think most junkies just sat there one day "Hmm I think I'll stick some smack in my veins today". Chances are they were on something lighter and the dealer gave them a freebie of heroin to smoke, over time they became dependent and started importing it into their veins. This isn't the case with 100% of addicts, but you will find a number that started off in such a situation.
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Lost count of the amount of times I've been offered crack/smack/pills/you name it on the house, and could have had a very large tab to put it on. Fortunately for me, I learnt something a very long time ago, it helped me out many times and will help me out in the future now doubt, and I;ll share it with you and the rest of BCF right now.....it was.....
"No thanks"
Sarcasm aside, the point is people have a choice, whether they are supposed to pay cash for something or have it for free, the buck stops with their decision.
I;ve been unfortunate to know far more people than I care to remember who have been on hard drugs, and most of the time their reasons are bordom, "Wanted to see what it was like", or indeed " was offered some and thought yeah why not". In all scenarios, they had a choice, they make their beds, they rot in them.
| Quote: |
Worse still are those who became addicted to NHS subscribed painkillers, which have a limit as to how long a patient can recieve such treatment, and of course when you can't get licit drugs, where else do you turn? Obviously these examples aren't fault of the dealer directly, but they can exploit the addictions of others and "acquire" the drugs the people want. Who is to blame here though? The NHS who provided them with painkillers in the first place? The dealer who provided them with an alternative afterwards? Or the addict, who once genuinely needed them and has now developed a physical addiction? |
One way to look at it might be the dealer is actually doing them a favour...... if the doctors refuse to give the medication, and the person is in terrible pain so as to need drugs of such potency, then on a moral stance, the dealer is hardly robbing the purchaser is he?
Whilst that is not ideal, the issue would certainly be with the NHS or the persons doctor more than the dealer, IMO.
Just to reiterate, I don't condone selling smack/crack or anything like that, but people have a choice, and if they grew half a spinal column then there would be no customers to warrant dealers selling such stuff.
GhostRider
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I have all the characteristics of a human being: blood, flesh, skin, hair; but not a single, clear, identifiable emotion, except for greed and disgust. Something horrible is happening inside of me and I don't know why. My nightly bloodlust has overflown into my days. I feel lethal, on the verge of frenzy. I think my mask of sanity is about to slip. |
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| Blue_SV650S |
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Blue_SV650S
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| The Original Muzza |
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The Original Muzza
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| Posted: 19:08 - 30 Apr 2009 Post subject: |
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GhostRider: I agree, but not everyone has as strong willpower to just tell the dealer to fuck off. Perhaps their judgement is impaired by drink/other drugs etc.
[quote=Blue_SV650S]The drug taker isn't the innocent little bunny, their neediness/weakness is the root cause of the whole thing!! [/quote]
I said in my last reply that it wasn't about the user. This thread is about MAKING money illegally. Not spending it
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| Suitor_Stu |
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Suitor_Stu
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| Blue_SV650S |
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Blue_SV650S
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| JonB |
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JonB
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| Posted: 19:48 - 30 Apr 2009 Post subject: |
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Tricky question?
Stealing (defrauding) the government A.K.A not declaring cash in hand jobs Vs Thieving from an old lady.
Whilst on one hand it is a no brainer, however the government question then extends to stealing from the government = stealing from the rest of the population through taxation = stealing from your friends, the old lady down the street, your family.
Ultimately this is the same for most things. Not declaring a modification to your motorbike car to the insurance company. OK, they get a lot of money however it then transfers to higher premiums for you and me.
It's kind of like an endless chain and is tightly bound, much like the 6 degrees of separation. Whilst the drug dealer may appear to have a larger moral standing than a thief, the drug user has to steal in order to fund his/her habit and so some accountability has to be attriuted to the drug dealer because the drug dealer and the thief are so intrinsicly linked.
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| yuri2085 |
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yuri2085
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| GhostRider |
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GhostRider
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| Posted: 16:20 - 01 May 2009 Post subject: |
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| Suitor_Stu wrote: |
No, but how about the large numbers of people who died to get that 'painkiller' to the UK? The opium and cocaine based drugs carry a stupidly high amount of 'blood per gram' - esp compared to the more synthetic based drugs and weed. To be involved in something like that is hardly moral for either party involved (dealer and buyer).
Stu |
I wonder how much the person in horrific pain would step over pablo's body to get what he needs? Which I think ties in a bit with Jon B's take on things, in that everyone has their own morals, draws their own lines, which are largely based on doing for self rather than giving much of a shit about anyone else (though self can include friends and family - people that matter). In this way people end of fucking each other over, but 'tis the way of the world.
| Quote: | Generally people who are dealers are nasty motherfuckers, this is not because of what they are selling, but because what they are selling is illegal. |
So your point is that because some people have got together and decided that they don't like a particular drug(i.e the government), then that makes the dealer a nasty motherfucker. However, were the people that make such decisions to turn around and decide to legalize said drug, the dealers would become saints, and the government are nasty motherfuckers?
GhostRider
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I have all the characteristics of a human being: blood, flesh, skin, hair; but not a single, clear, identifiable emotion, except for greed and disgust. Something horrible is happening inside of me and I don't know why. My nightly bloodlust has overflown into my days. I feel lethal, on the verge of frenzy. I think my mask of sanity is about to slip. |
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| Suitor_Stu |
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Suitor_Stu
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| Posted: 16:59 - 01 May 2009 Post subject: |
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| GhostRider wrote: |
So your point is that because some people have got together and decided that they don't like a particular drug(i.e the government), then that makes the dealer a nasty motherfucker. However, were the people that make such decisions to turn around and decide to legalize said drug, the dealers would become saints, and the government are nasty motherfuckers?
GhostRider |
No, I think his point is that because the drug has been made illegal it takes a special sort of person with a special sort of contact (who ultimately deals in a special sort of cruelty) to procure it then sell it - knowing full well what has gone in to getting it to the country and then selling it knowing the damage it will do (both physically and psycologically).
By the way, I'm referring to 'hard' drugs here - your opiates and coke based drugs. Obviously with grass, pills, whizz etc there is not the same level of international exploitation industry surrounding them and they don't do the same levels of damage that the harder drugs to. Still, because something is illegal you do need to deal with more unsavory characters, in general, to actually get said substance and some would say that there's no smoke without fire... |
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| Irezumi aka Reuben |
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Irezumi aka Reuben
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 17 years, 139 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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