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What happens with Toseland?

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lakonur
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PostPosted: 16:49 - 09 May 2009    Post subject: What happens with Toseland? Reply with quote
One of my favourites riders, a superbikes world championship but he's not doing good in Motogp and I don't understand why.

I suppose it's that Yamaha, but Colin is the 6 and James the 14...

What do you think?? I know SBK riders can win a race in MotoGP (Bayliss for example) so...

Neutral
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That_Hornet
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PostPosted: 17:03 - 09 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
I can only think that the bikes not right for him and still fine tuning it.

For instance hayden on the ducati. hes like last but with repsol he was in 5.......
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Biker101
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PostPosted: 17:06 - 09 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dont know why but i get the impression his team aren't very supportive towards him compared to colin.

Also i bet he is lacking confidence due to never being that close to the top since he arrived in motogp, although his little battle with rossi last year showed how much potential he does have.
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adama
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PostPosted: 17:19 - 09 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Its wierd, i think he'd do much better in a differnt team though, the hayati team is doing well for what it is..and being ditched. Lets hope he doesnt end up on a ducati though eh?

Come back nicky!!
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Mil17b
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PostPosted: 16:08 - 10 May 2009    Post subject: Re: What happens with Toseland? Reply with quote
lakonur wrote:
One of my favourites riders, a superbikes world championship but he's not doing good in Motogp and I don't understand why.

I suppose it's that Yamaha, but Colin is the 6 and James the 14...

What do you think?? I know SBK riders can win a race in MotoGP (Bayliss for example) so...

Neutral


I think he has lost alot of confidence with some big offs. There is also new control tyres for this season so maybe he has adapted his riding for this tyres yet, or maybe struggles with set up with these tyres.
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cheesyleps
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PostPosted: 17:15 - 10 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Biker101 wrote:
Dont know why but i get the impression his team aren't very supportive towards him compared to colin.


They allowed him to poach Edwards' pit chief which has caused massive conflict between the two riders. Personally, I would have thought if he was the "unfavoured" rider in the team they would have put a stop to that.

Maybe he simply isn't good enough. Yes, he won two WSB titles, but he never really dominated it even in those years.
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owdamer
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PostPosted: 19:00 - 10 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
cheesyleps wrote:


They allowed him to poach Edwards' pit chief which has caused massive conflict between the two riders. Personally, I would have thought if he was the "unfavoured" rider in the team they would have put a stop to that.



Edwards has been full of praise for the chief engineer that Toseland didn't want. Maybe something are more imprortant that being able to speak english. Toseland could have learned a lot from Edwards, but he'll have to figure it out for himself now. If he doesn't make a huge improvement he'll be out of Motogp by the end of the year.
Theres at least 2 riders moving up from the 250 class next year, (simoncelli is one of them, I forget the other) so unless someone has some spare bikes that means 2 current riders are out.
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Al
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PostPosted: 20:26 - 10 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Owdamer wrote:

Theres at least 2 riders moving up from the 250 class next year, (simoncelli is one of them, I forget the other) so unless someone has some spare bikes that means 2 current riders are out.



They were saying that Hiroshi Aoyama is desperate to move up to GP and seems to be doing everything to get himself noticed.
Bautista has got a good chance aswell, he's a sponsors dream really, a young Spanish lad thats got a bit of character and isn't miserable (Pedrosa) or a penis (Lorenzo) Smile .

People are talking like Toseland has some kind of problem, but to me it simply looks like his finishing 14th because there are 14 better riders then him on the day.
I think Toseland has got a major battle on his hands if he wants to keep his ride, I mean Sylvain Guintoli might not have the record that Toseland has but he got probably the best results he possibly could, given that tech3 didn't have nearly as much factory support and they were on Dunlops at the time, yet he still got the boot Neutral
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Ariel Badger
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PostPosted: 20:31 - 10 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
If I had been pre-warned of your question I would have asked him this morning. I was lined up to register at the Thundersprint and he was behind me, I was far more interested in the chaps in front of me, Sammy Miller https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sammy_Miller and Jim Redman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Redman The people controling signing on pushed JT to the front of the queue but left these two great riders to wait with us rabble Sad .
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amnesia
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PostPosted: 20:42 - 10 May 2009    Post subject: Re: What happens with Toseland? Reply with quote
lakonur wrote:
...What do you think?? ..

Neutral


If he doesn't improve by mid season he might find himself in the same dole queue as Robbie Rolfo (ditched by Stiggy WSB in favour of John Hopkins - who in turn has been replaced in the short term by Zemke due to injury as it happens).

MotoGP will always have the 250cc riders snapping at their heels.

If Dani Pedrosa doesn't produce this year, he might be third in line, having passed his bike keys to the next young pretender.


...and Biaggi might be holding the door open for the lot of them! Laughing
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cheesyleps
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PostPosted: 23:17 - 10 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
I also read somewhere that there is a new rule for next season whereby rookies can't ride for the full factory teams. Which means the likes of Tech 3 will be hotly aspired to by people coming up since they do get a lot of support.

Agree that it mostly just looks like there are 13 better riders in front of him.
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lurker
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PostPosted: 00:01 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's a different ball game from WSB.
He's moved up to the Premier League.
Would have surprised me if he'd taken the step up to Motogp and been challenging the top riders there.
As it happens, he's found himself coming back down to earth with a serious thump, same as Shakey Byrne did a couple of years ago.
There's only so many times you can blame circumstance for poor results.
When they run out he'll find himself back in WSB.
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adama
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PostPosted: 00:49 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thoughts on Nicky hayden then?..i wonder how long he will be riding ducati.
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Matt06
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PostPosted: 01:01 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Re: What happens with Toseland? Reply with quote
amnesia wrote:


MotoGP will always have the 250cc riders snapping at their heels.

If Dani Pedrosa doesn't produce this year, he might be third in line, having passed his bike keys to the next young pretender.



There is no way they will get rid of Pedrosa. Hes the one that leads the development of that Honda and hes 11 points above his teammate. Considering hes not 100% right now and missed on all that testing, its pretty damn good.

On the issue of Toseland, I think he is very capable. Missing out on Edwards' input in setting up the bike is obviously an issue. James showed very strong in some areas last season and i think a lot of people expected him to be right on it this year(incluing myself), but it just hasnt happened. He needs to pull his finger out and figure out what the problem is because hes obviously got the talent to do better than outside top 10 just something isnt clicking.

Would love to see what Ben Spies could do on the Tech 3.
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Al
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PostPosted: 15:41 - 11 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Al wrote:
it simply looks like his finishing 14th because there are 14 better riders then him on the day.
|


Haha that was a poor bit of maths Embarassed Razz
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cheesyleps
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PostPosted: 15:51 - 12 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Al wrote:
Al wrote:
it simply looks like his finishing 14th because there are 14 better riders then him on the day.
|


Haha that was a poor bit of maths Embarassed Razz


If you ask people what position they would be in if during a race they overtook the 3rd place driver, a large majority of people will answer 2nd if they don't take time to think about it.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 16:10 - 12 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
lurker wrote:

As it happens, he's found himself coming back down to earth with a serious thump, same as Shakey Byrne did a couple of years ago.
There's only so many times you can blame circumstance for poor results.


You have to remember that Byrne was never really on a good bike except a handful of rides on a Pons Honda.

The other times he was riding for Roberts, and Aprilia, both uncompetitive bikes.

I think JT is struggling because the competition is so tough out there, and the new 800s don't suit his superbike derived style. It will take time for him to change his style to use more corner speed rather than a stop it, and fire it out type style which worked better on the 990s.

He's also on a Tech 3 bike, which no matter what they say certainly isn't as good as the factory bike. Unless you're on a factory bike you can't really win.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 16:31 - 12 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
I thought that MotoGP was always the Blue Riband class and even the great Carl Foggarty wouldn't have done very well had he made the transition from WSB.

MotoGP is the top level of the sport, and WSB is more of a second fiddle. A bit like Touring Cars plays second fiddle to F1. Its a different style of racing on production based machinery.

Not many riders can (or have) made a successful transition from WSB to MotoGP, before, during or after 990cc four strokes.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 16:37 - 12 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:


Not many riders can (or have) made a successful transition from WSB to MotoGP, before, during or after 990cc four strokes.


It was easier when the bikes were 990s though as they were more similar to the WSB bikes.
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Rottweiler
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PostPosted: 22:48 - 12 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
aint good enough its as simple as that. edwards was a wsb champion but he has never won a race in motogp and id say he's a better rider then toseland.
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Ariel Badger
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PostPosted: 22:51 - 12 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
Another show off kid that aint got the balls to ride the TT IMHO.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 07:41 - 13 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
1930 Ariel wrote:
Another show off kid that aint got the balls to ride the TT IMHO.


Have you got the balls to ride the TT?
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owdamer
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PostPosted: 21:34 - 13 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
1930 Ariel wrote:
Another show off kid that aint got the balls to ride the TT IMHO.


Whats the point? He could probably get a good payday from doing the TT but it wouldn't further his career any. A lot of circuit racers who do the TT tend to be off the pace when they return to the circuits as they supposedly ride with a bit in reserve.
I'm trying to remember who the last TT winner to win a gp was, (a real GP, not macau or another road race). I'm guessing it was Hailwood?
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AngelGrinder
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PostPosted: 21:45 - 13 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm fairly sure he actually lives on the IOM?
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owdamer
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PostPosted: 21:56 - 13 May 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote
AngelGrinder wrote:
I'm fairly sure he actually lives on the IOM?


He does. But afaik its for tax reasons. Nothing to do with the TT.
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