Tuition

[vt6]

Hi lads, bit of background, getting fair into track days now. Feel like im improving with each one that I do. Bike is more than enough for me. Always looking to improve further. I've looked at different tuition. Cali superbike school etc, Noticed Hottrax do a S'bike School. Has anyone been to this if so what did you make of it. Or any other classes / courses you know of?

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

Fom what I've heard CSS is the best, but for me it's a waste of money until you're struggling to go faster by yourself.

EDIT-

For example I know my apex speed is good, but I lose out slightly on the brakes, and mostly on corner exits, so that's the main area I need to work on.
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[Fawbish]

Probably more useful to buy a bike that you /might/ hit the limits of (ie a 600 if you've got a thou) then mod that to what you need when you start getting Fast group fast.

I agree with tuition if you've dont have much of an idea yourself, but I've found its quite a fun and easy skill to pick up, self analysis on the track

Getting videos (onboard and offboard) and pictures (well done) always helps aswell, as you can analyse body position, track position etc
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"Oh....it looks like Average Joe's is forfeiting the match!" - "Yeah, its a risky strategy but lets see if it pays off for 'em Cotton."

[vt6]

Fawbish - Always get some pics while im there, on board cam is my next step I think. Put a few pics below:

https://www.trackdayriders.co.uk/uploads/20090518_194943__DSC01030077.JPG
https://www.trackdayriders.co.uk/uploads/20090518_195016__DSC01040078.JPG
https://www.trackdayriders.co.uk/uploads/20090518_195138__DSC01210092.JPG

I think my body positioning is improving nicely(opinions?), getting on the brakes a bit later, power a bit earlier. I just want to progress well and crack on.

[Fawbish]

How are you judging how fast you are? A friend clocking tracktimes on a stopwatch or just how you "feel"?

Only upto a point can you really "feel" as if you were faster, I'd say.

Might be worth getting a friend to time you *shush shush, technically you aint allowed*

And then see what you can do to improve an average of what you "feel" to be fast laps.

I mean, could go one further (if all of this is done on the same track) and time pre-determined (between yourself and a friend) sections of the track, say 1/3s. A few "hot laps" will give you a good average, and then you can look at the areas of the lap you could do to improve.

Which group do you run in? I would assume Fast?
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"Oh....it looks like Average Joe's is forfeiting the match!" - "Yeah, its a risky strategy but lets see if it pays off for 'em Cotton."

[G]

On-board video is the best for timing.
However, ideally you want someone following you to analyse your style etc - you might be surprised how much more track you could use, etc.

I have had a day's one on one tuition from a Hottrax instructor - definitely wasn't impressed to the point I was going to write a letter to complain, but never got around to it.

I've also now done the first two levels of CSS. Not particularly impressed with that either.
So far self-help seems to be by far the best value training for me.
CSS does have some interesting points, but I don't feel their points or the way they are put across justify the costs.
I'm told that if they were to teach Rossi, they'd teach him the same way; however for me I found it ponderous. Plenty of bits they are teaching I already do, but they are incredibly un-flexible in their structure.

[Luke_Retrofly]

Follow someone slightly quicker than you, when your faster than them find some slightly faster than them

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[vt6]

Defo more happy with body position, track position id say needs work. I'm in inters for reference, i'm by no means quick as but its where I want to be. I just think track days are all good and of course benefit but if i'm doing stuff wrong I want to get that changed first.

[G]

Do you take advantage of the free instructors offered at track days? Definitely worth it, though not all are great. One I had with Focused Events told me "Yea, I enjoyed that, I really came on that session, as this is my first day at the track too" ... err, great, but that doesn't massively help me!.. I started off fairly on his tail, then he slowly drew away. As they get, I believe, very little 'benifits' with FE, I can't blame them really.

[Fawbish]

Vt6, Id forget about what youre doing "wrong" for now. If you get caught up in what your doing wrong, you sometimes forget what you're doing right, and this can be altered by what you change to compensate for the "wrong" thing, if that makes sense.


Theres analysis, and theres over analysing.


I tend to try and not think about things too much, and just visualise what I would do if I wanted to take the fastest line through a corner etc which most of the time is common sense.

You can read online tutorials about apex's etc, but I think when you start thinking about it, you'll just 'know' whats roughly the right line through the corner, and then fine tune it throughout the day.

I know for a fact I dont worry about not being fastest out there (yet), and I fucking love trying to get a corner right. Chances are I will never have got any of the corners "spot on" on my trackdays, but the times I've come close (for instane, the double left hand apex at Rock Int) to feeling as if I've got it spot on....brilliant feeling. I dont know what Im even carrying on with the post for now. Im just reiterating that I fucking love bikes.
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"Oh....it looks like Average Joe's is forfeiting the match!" - "Yeah, its a risky strategy but lets see if it pays off for 'em Cotton."

[Luke_Retrofly]

Basic hint, getting on the power earlier on the exit of a corner is quicker than braking later and compromising your exit.

Of course don't get on the power too early or you'll high-side

[Fawbish]

[Luke_Retrofly]

Edited to make more sense.

What I'm saying is its better to work on your line and getting the power down earlier in a corner than braking later.