How to get your knee down

[Sparks!]

As the nights draw in and bikes are removed from the road, so the tall tales of the summer’s antics start to come out. “yeah, I got my knee, toe/elbow/helmet/handlebars down on the mini roundabout outside Tescos.”

Getting your knee down, it is seen as a rite of passage for many bikers, and it draws strong reactions from anyone within the biking community. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve had the argument with people about getting your knee down so I thought I’d jot down some words to try and clarify the point.

Oh dear
We’ve all seen him, the desperate Sunday rider lapping the local roundabouts, the right side of his tyre melted and mangled, the left side positively virginal. Our pet power ranger is hanging off so far and has done so many laps that he is feeling a little dizzy and his right leg has developed a cramp that is beginning to resemble rigor mortis. He stinks of desperation and bikers and car drivers alike frown upon his 20+ laps of ever roundabout.

The common perception is that getting your knee down is inherently dangerous and serves no useful purpose. The old knee down argument can never be discussed without some reference to Mike Hailwood and Police Motorbike riders. I always hear “they don’t get their knees down and they are some of the best riders out there”. Now while there is some truth to this, there are some caveats. Although Mike Hailwood was undoubtedly a highly skilled racer, the machines of the time perhaps did not necessitate hanging off to achieve the results he did. As for Police riders, they have a rigid training programme that ensures they are super observant and well positioned on the road. What it does not consider are the subtle nuances of body positioning and the affect on machine control.

Why do it at all?
So the key question then is why all racers today hang off the bike. Well, hanging off a bike and getting your knee down serve several purposes;

It allows less lean angle for a given corner speed which
Puts the tyre on a larger contact patch
It allows you to gauge how far you are leant over

All of the above points mean that the racers can get more traction coming out of a corner and maintain a margin of ground clearance. This, in a racing environment can mean the difference between first place and nowhere.


Hanging off on the road
When riding on the road we are less concerned with shaving tenths of seconds off the newspaper run. However some of the principles and benefits of hanging off and getting your knee down also translate into safer road riding. For example, in the wet, hanging off allows you keep the bike more upright and therefore give you more grip. Also, by hanging off the bike your arms and legs act as secondary suspension and will smooth out any potholes and imperfections when cornering. Lastly, you will be far less likely to touch down pegs or exhausts which can either be disconcerting or just plain dangerous. When your knee touches down, you know that you still have some lean angle to play with. When you are on your pegs/exhaust, you have already reached max lean and cannot tighten up your lines. This ability can mean the difference between making it home for a nice cup of tea and being surgically implanted into a milk float.
Shock horror, all of the above points illustrate that hanging off on the road can make you safer!!!! Surely this can’t be right…… can it?


How to get your knee down
Taking the fact that hanging off and getting your knee down is actually a valid road riding technique, it is probably the right time to discuss how to actually do it. There is a world of difference between our Sunday surfer and the premier class racers. The difference is that the racer gets his knee down to gauge how far over they are, whereas to the Sunday surfer, actually getting his knee down is the objective.

Getting your knee down is all about preparation, as with any ride you should be sure that your bike is in tip top condition.

Find a nice big open roundabout with well surfaced tarmac. Ride round slowly to check for gravel, diesel and to start getting some heat into the right hand side of your tyre. Once you are happy with this, you can progress:

Approach the roundabout and change down to a suitable gear, this should be slightly higher than normal to blunt any sharp inputs you may make to the throttle.

Position your feet so that the balls are on the pegs, and your right hand foot should be resting on the very end of the peg and free to pivot around it.

Move your arse so that one cheek is off the seat. More importantly your torso should move sideways off the bike. Viewed from above, your spine should be parallel with the centerline of the bike. Ideally you head should feel like the part of your body furthest away from the bike. At the same time you need to rotate your right leg so that the knee swings round perpendicular to the bike. Try to get it as close to the back of the bike as possible.

Relax your arms. A good test is to try and wiggle your elbows up and down mid corner, not able to do this? Then you are too tense.

Lean over on a gently opening throttle, gently getting faster and lower

Try to grip the back of the tank with your inside left thigh, this will lock you in place and make you feel like you are part of the bike rather than a mildly sedated gibbon strapped to a cruise missile.

When your slider first touches down you will inevitably panic and sit the bike upright, shortly followed by much hysterical screaming into your helmet. This is perfectly normal……..oooh suits you sir


Move your body slightly off the bike, looking way around the roundabout always helps you to lean that little bit further too, try to keep your body straight as in, a lot of people hang their legs off and stick their knees out but keep their body and head/arms in the normal riding position, shift yourself off the bike and the bike will become a bit more stable too. Relax and you'll get used to the scraping in no time!

https://www.cwimedia.co.uk/other/misc/0105-400gb-rideout/yamskd-1-small.jpg
https://predator.bikepics.com/pics/yamaha-r6-01-bikepics-147063.jpg
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Current Toys: 06 Yamaha WR250F | Nissan 350Z GT | Tech 4 Homes

[Irdawood the 2nd]

Excellant guide mate covered pretty much everything,

Good book also to get would be, Twist of the Wrist 2 by Keith Code its pretty good

Also practice makes perfect when i first tried to get my knee down it too ages! just make sure you done get scared as your tyres have plenty of grip and all that also when i first started out i thought i was leaning a lot more then i actually was. To get an idea i got the mrs to take some pics and from that i could work out i could go much lower

[Stew]

It really does help if you go to learn to GYKD with other people.
If you are having trouble getting your knee down, it helps to see others getting theirs down, you can see at what point in the corner/roundabout others are touching down and can give you the confidence to do the same. Also gives you the extra push when you know people are watching, this probably depends on how competitive you are.
When I first bought my YZF I was a bit nervous about getting my knee down (even though I found it easy on the VFR). I went up to the normal kneedown roundie to give it a go, there was a couple of other riders there on CBR6s who were doing laps too. At first I couldn't do it and one of the CBR riders was struggling a bit too, a few laps later and both the CBR riders were touching down. The fact that they were both doing it (and I didn't want to look stupid) made me push that little bit harder until I GMKD.
Alternatively, do a trackday and following someone can help, but then there is the fear of riding at a pace above your own, it might be scary but you would be suprised at how much faster you can actually take corners.
I am yet to touch my left down though.
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"Unlike public school you don't need to have your arse up and your head down to go a long way...."

[Sparks!]

I agree with Stoo, taking someone with a camera is also one of the best things you can do!

Learning from bike to bike is also really different on styles etc.

From personal experience, the ZXR400 was easy, low to the ground, throttle response isn't as fast as bikes these days etc, so easy to ride smoothly around and around and around.

The R6 however is much taller (and wider) and means I actually have to hang off now lol But either I'm doing something wrong or I'm just not used to it yet as I'm really touchy with the throttle. Can't lap roundabouts with my knee down non stop at the minute, but only gone out twice to play on roundabouts since buying the bike so haven't had much practice.

But basically, take a camera person and some mates!
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Current Toys: 06 Yamaha WR250F | Nissan 350Z GT | Tech 4 Homes

[zaknafien]

[Demonic69]

I can get my left down easily enough on my local private roundy now too
Living in the country's great! Private wheelie road, roundabout and a hooj bike meet 20 secs away
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Back on a Blade. Just feels so right.

[zaknafien]

[Demonic69]

It's just round teh corner from me, very long, very flat and very straight. Good enough for 2 or 3 failed attempts by me
____________________
Back on a Blade. Just feels so right.

[Dark]

I got my knee down for the first time this weekend. All my mates have done it, but they were actually trying to do it, rather than concentrating on riding fast!

I told them that it'll happen when it happens and it did. The reason it hadn't happened yet is because i was not going fast enough. I really wanted to get my knee down for the first time by just riding fast and without actually trying to hang right off the bike and going for false glory (if you know what i mean).

The problem was it happened because i was a bit too hot in to a corner and my toe slider touched followed by the knee slider and then the carve slider and then the peg. Ran a bit wide too. Being completely out of ground clearance while still running wide is a bit unnerving!

So the next day i started hanging off a bit more and found out that i could do it pretty much when ever i wanted to. But only on left handers!!

I've always been a left hand corner fan, don't know why though, and so my next goal is to figure out how i'm gonna mirror my left cornering technique to my right hand cornering.

I've only tried a couple of times so far, but it didn't go too well. Anyone else have the same problem?

[Stew]

Totally the opposite. Right hand knee down is easy whereas I have never had my left down. I put this down to the fact that right hand side has been practised a lot more on roundabouts etc. Left knee will go down I just need more practice to get used to it I guess. It should have happened when I went on a trackday but I wasn't really hanging off the bike on left handers.
Just keep trying I guess.
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"Unlike public school you don't need to have your arse up and your head down to go a long way...."

[Dark]

I might have to resort to a roundabout in the end. I'll have to go out exploring for a large quiet roundabout this weekend then, me thinks.

[ProXimaCore]

I'm the same as you Dark. My left goes down really easy. Right side takes a little effort for it to work. I think I've figured out what I'm doing wrong though. It's to do with my body position when I'm hanging off the right hand side. Hard to explain in words though. I'm assuming you've got a ZX7R from your avatar. ( ) How do you find it leant over? I've heard it's meant to be one of the most stable bikes for cornering. I know it's heavier than most bikes but how do you find it for throwing it round a corner? I plan on getting one for my next bike.
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Honda NSR125R -> Suzuki GSXR400R GK76a -> Kawasaki ZX636 B1H -> Honda CBR400RR NC29 -> Nothing

[Dark]

I've ridden a lot of my mates bikes and found them all unstable compared to mine. My ZX7R is unbelievably stable at all speeds and all lean angles through corners.

It was a hard work when i first got it when changing direction at high speed or from peg to peg chicanes due to it being on factory suspension settings. But dropping the forks through the yokes and jacking the back right up solved that.

Power wise, its surprising how fast it is, it doesn't lose out much on the litre bikes i ride with. But they can't stay with me in the real fast corners (120MPH+) or on the brakes. I can't see me changing it for anything yet, it feels too good to ride.

the only downsides to the bike has is that its bloody hard to wheelie because its so heavy and it can be a tad uncomfortable until you get used to it.

I recommend one, but i am biased! Find one, have a go and let me know what you think. Only one person thats been on my bike has liked it. So it depends on what your used to.

I've been thinking about why i'm not getting my right knee down a lot today and i have a theory. I use a lot of rear brake and i think i'm not pivoting my right foot in to the proper position. I'm gonna pay attention to what i'm doing more the next time out (which will probably be tonight)

[Dark]

Woo hoo, both knees have now been down!!

It was due to my right foot not being positioned correctly on the peg, i'm so used to covering the rear brake, i just do it unconsciously.

Its very hard to analyse exactly what you're doing when your concentrating on the road too!

But, once i'd forced my foot in to the right position my body followed and voila down went the right knee. It only happened once though.

I'm still struggling a bit approaching bends because i'm having to completely change my approach method. everyting feels a bit scrappy at the moment, i'm sure given time, i will have adapted to a new riding style and will back to my usual smoothness.

[True Blue]

So what speed are you doing whilst getting your knee down and in what gear?
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Past >>>> Honda NSR 125 >>>> Suzuki GSXR 600 K1 >>>> Suzuki GSXR 600 K4 >>>>Kawasaki Z1000 DAF >>>>Suzuki RMZ 250 >>>> Current >>>> KTM Superduke R 1290 >>>>

[Dark]

I'm confident enough on left handers now, so anything from 2nd gear 40mph corners to 6th gear 120MPH sweepers.

Right handers are different story, i've touched down twice so far, both times in 50MPH ish 3rd gear corners.

[Sparks!]

[Demonic69]

I think KD on roundabouts is good for learing your bike and it's limits though. Roundabouts are much more forgiving than normal roads and can stop you binning it on the 1st corner you *think* you can get your knee down on. If you cang do it on a roundy then you really shouldn't be trying it on the roads
____________________
Back on a Blade. Just feels so right.

[ProXimaCore]

What size of roundabout do you all use when you're practicing? My right side still needs some work.
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Honda NSR125R -> Suzuki GSXR400R GK76a -> Kawasaki ZX636 B1H -> Honda CBR400RR NC29 -> Nothing

[Sparks!]

I've only done it once on a road (instead of a roundabout)

And that was the flyover that joins the A272 from Petersfield A3M

Lovely corner, but I only managed it the one time on my ZXR but me and a mate used to try every single time we went up that road hehe, he never managed it either
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Current Toys: 06 Yamaha WR250F | Nissan 350Z GT | Tech 4 Homes

[Demonic69]

It's easy on most size roundies, so long as they're not tiny. Huge ones are fun, especially for stuffing Gixxer1000's
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Back on a Blade. Just feels so right.

[True Blue]

[Sparks!]

Give it a go in 3rd

For some reason I found it easier in 2nd, compared to 3rd, but I think that the time I tried in 3rd I was going too slowly for the size of the roundabout. Not sure.
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Current Toys: 06 Yamaha WR250F | Nissan 350Z GT | Tech 4 Homes

[Shaun]

[ProXimaCore]