FUEL P*SSING OUT OF 2 DIFFERENT PLACES!!!

[stirlinggaz]

Hi all,
some of you probably know i've been having a few problems with a honda mtx200, which i recently acquired.
anyway, following most peoples advice, i removed the flywheel.
& i have now replaced the sheared woodruff key.
& i put the bike back together last night.
but i now have fuel dripping from 2 places.
1 : its coming out of the drain hole on the bottom of the carb, even though the drain screw is tightly closed.
2 :more worryingly, petrol is now dipping out of where the exhaust bolts to the cylinder, right at the manifold.
so wtf is going on?
anyone any ideas on how to stop these leaks?
what caused them?
& have i damaged anything?
i noticed the fuel dripping out of the carb last night.
i did get the bike started & it ran for a while but i decided to hit the kill switch when i noticed the fuel dripping out of the carb.
on the way out to work this morning i noticed a patch of fuel underneath the exhaust.
& could see the petrol dripping off the manifold/mount.
any ideas?
cheers,
GAZ

[Timmeh]

Try the usual suspects first, i.e. stuck float, or perished float bowl seal. The petrol will stream everywhere and drip off various parts of the bike, usually miles from where it actually orginated.


____________________
GSXR400 x2 | '94 RVF400 | '93 TZR125 4DL (again)
20:22:30 BLUEX5: i would love to be forced to undergo a**l plugging with different sizes
20:48:18 Temeluchus: comp you hunk of smouldering homos3x you

[stirlinggaz]

hi,
exhaust was full of fuel, so was the cylinder.
removed the exhaust & siphoned it out of the cylinder.
removed the carb & manifold & reed block.
time to start again.
something seriousy wrong somewhere.
cheers,
GAZ

[Pete.]

The float valve isn't sealing so the carb is over-flowing. On some carbs the drain off is also an overflow so fuel will come out no matter how tight it is if the level is too high. The reason your exhaust is full is because once the carb has overflowed it's filled the cylinder and exhaust with petrol, perhaps the crank case too.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[Ariel Badger]

Once you sort the carb drain the oil and fill with fresh. Petrol in oil reduces its lubricating properties to that of water.
____________________
Bikers make great organ donors, get 115 on your licence today.

[MarJay]

[Ariel Badger]

[stirlinggaz]

[Pete.]

Sometimes you get a ridge in the tapered point needle where it wears on the seat that stops it sealing. What I have done in the past on a GS850 was drilled the holes out in the seat, so the needles seal on a wider part of the taper. It's the same as fitting new needles.

You have to re-set the float heights afterwards but it did work perfectly when I did it.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[stirlinggaz]

hi all,
i took the carb apart & checked the float height.(the vitron tip on the needle looks ok)
its the same as stated in the manual ,19mm.
so i've put it all back together but it still wont start.
theres no leak from the bottom of the carb now though.
but still getting a drip from the exhaust mount.
anyone any ideas?
its getting a spark.
its getting fuel -plugs wet (looks im flooding it)
it seems to have compression. (being a kick start only,im not sure how accurate the compression tester is)
cheers,
GAZ

[Pete.]

I'd remove the plug and whizz it over a bit then leave it 'till tomorrow to try again. You might still have a lot of fuel residing in the crank cases.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[stirlinggaz]

hi,
removed exhaust & carb again.
left the spark plug out & let it all dry out.
put it all back together.
still getting a spark. (when tested outside)
no fuel leaking from the carb,but fuel in the carb.
but after kicking it a few times, fuel starts to drip out from the exhaust mount.
so im guessing its flooding, lol
anyone any ideas?
cheers,
GAZ

[stirlinggaz]

anyone???? lol

could my problems getting it started be related to the fact that the woodruff key sheared?
i have now replaced it.
but while removing the flywheel, i noticed the taper had what looked like some sort of sealant on it. ( & a lot of it)
i presume this was to stop the flywheel moving.
i cleaned it all off, fitted a new woodruff key & managed to get the nut back on. (the threads on the nut were a bit f*cked but i re-threaded it)
the threads on the taper were also a bit dodgy as well,the nut would only catch in places & spin at others, but it caught at the last bit of the threads (the important bit).
but looking at the workshop manual, there should be a washer on the taper, before the nut goes on.
im thinking, whoever fitted the flywheel, used lots of this sealant stuff, instead of a washer. (due to the f*cked threads)
i tried a washer but couldnt get the nut to catch on the threads enough.
would it be worth cutting new threads on the taper, in order to get a washer on.
would this make any difference?
or is it something else? lol
cheers,
GAZ

[Pete.]

The stripped threads are a problem. The fact that someone has put sealant on the taper means that the not hasn't held the flywheel on the taper solidly and the flywheel has spun. Thay have mistakenly thought the sealer would do the job of holding the rotor but in fact it does the opposite.

Tapers are funny things they work by direct close-fitting metal to metal contact causing high friction and providing the driving force. There should be absolutely nothing, not even oil, between the contacting surfaces. The sealant on there will be the cause of it keep shearing the woodruff key.

If the thread for the nut is gone, I suggest cutting off the stub that is threaded and drilling & tapping the end of the crank for a decent sized bolt to retain the rotor threading at least 4x diameter, cleaning the crap off the taper on the shaft and in the rotor, removing any burrs especially on the edges of the woodruff slot, and re-fitting the rotor.

If the crank is hardened (it almost certainly won't be you can check it with a file) then you won't be able to do that but it's how I'd tackle the problem.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[stirlinggaz]

hi,
& thanks Geri, yiu've confirmed what in was thinking.
however, would it be too much of a bodge to clean up the taper. (done this with a dressing stone) then cut some new threads on the threaded part.
then fit a M12 washer. (which is what should have been in there instead of the sealant stuff)
clean everything up & tighten the nut back up.
in the hope that the new threads willl be enough to hold it all tight.
i think that if i cut anything off, i might not have enough to get the flywheel back on.
ie it wont be long enough.
& drilling into it sounds a bit daunting.
cheers,
GAZ

[Pete.]

Yes that would be acceptable because all the nut has to do is hold the taper together but it does pose some problems:

If you have a M12 nut it'll be either 1.5 or 1.25 pitch (fine and super-fine). You're gonna have to file that down to just under 10mm (like 9.9m) and keep it perfectly round to run a M10 fine pitch die down it. It'd certainly be possible but need some good skill with the file and the fine pitch isn't too forgiving.

In comparison, drilling & tapping would be a doddle.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[stirlinggaz]

hi,
yes, the more i think about it, the more i think i wont be capable of re-threading it, properly)
its currently M12 x1.5.
threaded part is approx 25-30mm long.
so i cut that off, sounds easy enough.
but what size of hole should i drill?
how deep?
& what size of tap & bolt do you reccomend?

if im gonna do it (& i need to, the bikes f*cked otherwise) i'd rather do a decent job of it, avoiding it happening again.
since i put a new woodruff key in, its only ran once.
then the flywheel slipped a bit & the key is damaged. (just as well there only a quid each, lol))
thanks for the advice,
cheers,
GAZ

[Pete.]

First off I'd center-punch the end of the shaft and see if it'll drill. If it does then I'd drill it out to 8.5mm and tap it and stick a M10 x 1.5 bolt in it about 35-40mm long.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[stirlinggaz]

hi all,
well i cdecided i was gonna follow Geri's advice.
BUT before commencing, i figured i had nothing to lose by trying to re-thread the crank.
after all, if i made a c*nt of it, i was going to chop the threaded part off anyway, right?
so, i drained the coolant. (had to move a hose out of the way)
& slowly attacked it with the dremel & grinding stone attachment.
i removed all the old threads.
i knew it wasnt going to be perfect, but i tried the best i could.
anyway, i cleaned it up & it wasnt too pretty, but fairly even all the way round.
so using the M10 x1.5 die, i attempted to cut some new threads.
i failed at first, as i hadnt ground enough off.
but at the 3rd attempt i managed to get it to cut some new threads.
& it LOOKS ok.
i wont know if its worked till the weekend.
as i have had to order another woodruff key, as this ones damaged.
but fingers crossed, a new key ,a washer & M10 nut & it will all bolt together.
& heres hoping it will hold,
wish me luck,lol
cheers,
GAZ

[Pete.]

Woodruff keys are easy to make - all you need is a pound coin and a hacksaw.

You did say they cost a quid after all
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[stirlinggaz]

[stirlinggaz]

[Pete.]

The woodruff key is only the locator to keep the rotor aligned. All of the load is carried by the taper.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good