De-Restriction, the Big bike way!

[MarJay]

Hi all,
Today a number of us southern BCF people headed to an open day at M and P in Oxford. The main draw being the free dyno runs at the dyno shootout. Myself and Danny submitted our bikes for the mechanical torture just out of interest.

Below is a scan of my dyno chart:
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Sparks!]

Erm, never understood these charts.... So whats the max bhp yours is then? I spotted 89bhp but surely it must be a lot more than that.
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Current Toys: 06 Yamaha WR250F | Nissan 350Z GT | Tech 4 Homes

[MarJay]

As you can see, not a resounding success.

As you can see from the dyno chart, Peak power at the crank Should ne 140 odd bhp. It is in fact 90bhp!
In real life I would expect it to make 120bhp at the rear when it actually makes 80! thats a drop of 40bhp!!!

The guy operating the dyno told me that he was sure it was the 'DB-Killer' in the exhaust that is causing the flat spot and the low peak power.

I removed my Wolf Road legal can and removed the DB Killer baffle.

With this baffle out the bike feels much stronger throughout the rev range and it actually power wheelies in first gear. The best part is, I still have the other baffle with the BSi mark on it in the back of the can, and so it is still 'Road Legal'

The can is full of carbon deposits so before the imminent trackday I will bung some Redex in my tank. hopefully it will help to de coke the engine and liberate some ponies!
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Sparks!]

Yeah I was going to say, I was expecting 130/140 not 90

So you can wheely at last then

The bike should feel great now that you've removed the shitty baffle then, sound better too?
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Current Toys: 06 Yamaha WR250F | Nissan 350Z GT | Tech 4 Homes

[MarJay]

Well,
I don't think that just removing the baffle will be a complete fix. I plan to get the bike set up on a dyno, but because my bike is fuel injected I will need to use my Tuneboy software.

I also need a better way to de coke the exhaust than just with redex and brute revs!
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[bikedudextrm]

I was suprised that it seemed so low, are you going to get it on a dyno again now you've sorted the can. Will be good to see the difference.
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https://www.bikepics.com/members/bikedudextrm/

[MarJay]

I would like some technical opinions on the huge power drop too!
Also, anyone know a good way to de-coke the exhaust?
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Sparks!]

Not sure on how to de-coke exhaust, but just wondered, hows your bikes handling now the suspension has been set up?
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Current Toys: 06 Yamaha WR250F | Nissan 350Z GT | Tech 4 Homes

[MarJay]

Fantastically!
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Kickstart]

Hi

Haven't you been doing some playing with the TuneBoy anyway?

Suspect the can has lost you a load of power. Most are just knocked up out of standard parts with no real developement effort at all.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Sparks!]

What's a tune boy thing?
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Current Toys: 06 Yamaha WR250F | Nissan 350Z GT | Tech 4 Homes

[Mr C]

oh my

that dyno chart doesn't look right at all

I mean - I don't know anything about triples or their power charactereistics but for a four stroke engine to lose torque at that rate as the rpm rises doesn't look right at all

and then at 7000 rpm all hell breaks loose that must be impossible to ride

If it was peaking at 120bhp then it would be downright dangerous, you really would not want to be on the power exiting a bend, power coming in that quick would easily overwhelm the tyre

so called "race" cans are a waste of money - how many race bikes do you see with just cans on ?

if you want power get a full race system, if you want noise get a nova and stick a trumpet on the exhaust


seriously thoug, that really looks like a job for the good Dr Mills at BigCC and a powercommander to sort that out

it really cant be much fun to ride as it is ?
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187.3bhp = 201mph

[Danny]

I was wondering why Mark was going so slow on the ride to M&P.

[Mr C]

also, if the can is full of carbon deposits then it sounds like the bike is running hugely rich which will sap power - not to mention up the fuel consumption considerably

I can run a finger round the inside of mine (no RooRoo ) and it is usually just a light grey dusting
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187.3bhp = 201mph

[Kickstart]

[Mr C]

hokay chief

seriously though, more advanced than a powercommander, in what way ?

I have a fuel map for 9 throttle positions and rpm in 500 rpm increments and an ignition map the same

I can reporgram this in seconds trackside with a serial lead and a laptop


I've never heard of tuneboy, does it run on a laptop and reprogram the ecu direct ?

anyhoo, the point is moot as the argument remains the same - that bike ain't fuelling right for whatever reason and needs a proper set up
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187.3bhp = 201mph

[Demonic69]

Marj, AFAIK you can just wash out the exhaust. Craig did a few times and it sounded great while wet
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Back on a Blade. Just feels so right.

[MarJay]

Mr C,
The Tuneboy is able to remap the Fuel injection to a much higher degree of accuracy than a power commander.

ATM I have the Triumph race can map on there, and with a road legal exhaust that wasn't going to be good. I have removed the baffle and the bike now runs much better. The can isn't any old rubbish, its a Carbon Fibre wolf oval can. I know the guy that runs wolf, and he develops the cans particularly for Triumphs!
Its really my fault for trying the race can map with the dumb road legal baffle. Admittedly I didn't expect the problem to be as bad as it was, but now I know.

Check this out:
https://www.tuneboy.com.au/Compare/Compare.html

What I REALLY need to do, is to find a tuning place with a DynoJet Dynamometer and take my laptop there. Tuneboy has a Dynojet Tuning link emulator!

That should sort my fuelling!

Later I shall take a photo of the "DB Killer" baffle so that you can all see how restrictive it is, and how coked up it got!
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Mr C]

well from looking at that link it certainly does a lot more than a PC but is it more accurate?

I don't understand how this sales blurb defines accurate

and a can is a can is a can afaik - like I say race bike use full systems, cans are about noise and pose - not power

anyhoo

Sean Mills at Big CC is the best dyno operator I have come across - he has a DJ250 dyno
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187.3bhp = 201mph

[Korn]

That graph is all over the shop

It should look like this:
https://home.hetnet.nl/~speed4/bikes/955i/graphs/TuneBoy_2002Daytona.jpg

[Mr C]

yep, that's much more like it

nice smoot power curve and big fat torque
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187.3bhp = 201mph

[MarJay]

Its better than a power commander because it re maps the ECU itself and is not a junction box that translates between the ECU and the injectors.

The Tuneboy software can remap in 250rpm increments. Also because the Sagem system is a closed loop system there is no fighting between sensors and ecu and modifier box.

Basically, the ECU is connected to various sensors that modify the fuelling based on their readings.

[MarJay]

In addition,
I don't think my can was a waste of money... assuming I can change the mapping to suit it.
My standard can and link pipe weigh 16 kilos. My wolf carbon can weighs 4 kilos with the baffles in! Thats quite a weight loss!

Maybe I'll give big CC a ring...
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Mr C]

I wasn't suggesting for a minute that this wasn't the way to go for you, merely trying to increase my understanding of a product I had never heard of.

Can you change the map just from a laptop or do you need specific hardware, I like to be able to make mods to mine at the strip

also, is it just a Triumph thing, it sounds like the famous Teka box for suzuki FI which does much the same thing, but you need the box to make any more adjustments


anyway, this was never really about the method used, just about the fact that something needs to be done
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187.3bhp = 201mph

[Mr C]

and OK

I'll give you weight saving as an advantage
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187.3bhp = 201mph