1988 FZ600 wont start.[Fixed]

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Press the starter button and nothing happens,no clicking,nothing.
Run a live straight from the battery to the starter and it fires straight up.
The starter relay has been changed which we know was working on the other bike.
Traced all the wiring and everything looks ok.By-passed the side-stand switch aswell but it's not that either.

Any ideas what else could be wrong?

Thanks
Dave
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DRZ-400sm

[tshort2007]

its deffinatly electrical. Double check all the connections, and bypass each wire individualy with a new piece, incase of a broken wire. Check earth points. bypas the switch/button with a wire incase the switch is broken

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Done a continuity test on each wire while pulling & pushing various parts of the wiring harness and all wires seemed fine.
Wondering if there is anything else on the wiring that could cause it?

It was this type of relay that we changed:

https://www.cardiffmotorcycles.co.uk/hl/solonoid/714992.jpg

But we traced a couple of wires into what looks like a cdi unit ?
Not sure if there is meant to be anything else in the wiring for the starter as i cant find a wiring diagram for the bike.

Bike was running fine then next day this happened

Thanks for the reply
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DRZ-400sm

[tshort2007]

does this seem to suit? its for a fzr600

https://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=fzr600.JPG&album=25062&fullsize=1

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Not sure tbh.I know the fzr is water cooled and this older one is water cooled but could possible be the same.
Just had another look through the manuals thread on here and i think i found it *finger crossed*

Could take me some time to make sense of it though
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DRZ-400sm

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Nope it's different by the looks of it according to the manual i have just downloaded.

Seems to go into a relay unit so it has to be that at fault i'd imagine.:
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DRZ-400sm

[tshort2007]

i'm good with electrics. aint electricuted maself yet anyway.
Give a shout if your stuck

[Kickstart]

Hi

Think that relay should work by earthing the white / purple wire to trigger the relay (and it will matter which way round the 2 large wires are connected as the permy feed will need to be on the side that earths via that wire).

If you earth that wire and nothing happens then the problem is either the relay or the wiring to the starter. If it does fire up then the problem is elsewhere (ie, sidestand switch, clutch switch, etc).

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

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https://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x13/fronterapics/fz6wiring.jpg

In the above pic the L/W (marked in red) wire is the white/blue shown on the starter relay a few posts up.The wires i have marked in blue are actually black.

The white/blue goes through the flasher relay - into the diode assembly and into the starter button on the bars.

The black wire (earth i'm assuming) goes through pretty much everything

Thanks for the reply keith i'll try earthing that wire and see what happens.

Thanks for your help aswell tshort2007,no doubt i'll be asking for more help with this real soon

As you can see wiring is not my strong point .It's my friend's bike and i'm trying to save him the cost of putting it into the garage.

Thanks
Dave
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DRZ-400sm

[Kickstart]

Hi

Think it isn't just a flasher unit. It is a box of various relays, but probably also controls the cutout to prevent you starting it in gear.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

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Thanks.

I'm pretty sure that's where the fault lies then,problem is going to be finding one i think.There seems to be some on ebay but there all from the newer fzr and have different part numbers on them.
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DRZ-400sm

[Kickstart]

Hi

Yamaha tend to be quite good on not changing things unless they have to. With luck you will find one although I have a feeling they are not cheap new. Also worth checking the old XJ600 (pre Diversion) that donated its engine for the FZ600, or the 400 bikes that donated their chassis.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

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If i put my test meter (which beeps to show continuity) between the black and blue/white wire with ignition off it beeps,but with ignition on it doesn't.

I can still put a screwdriver between the two big red and black wires and it starts straight up.
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DRZ-400sm

[finpos]

You need to be a bit careful, there's a lot of unfused battery voltage kicking around.

So, under that rubber boot where the blue/white wire comes from, there are actually 2 electrical terminals, one needs 12V and the other needs to be earthed for the relay to work. One terminal is connected to the blue/white wire.

If you look at the picture above, the left hand nut has a metal tab on it that goes underneath the rubber boot. This tab goes to the other terminal behind the boot and is supplying 12V to the coil side of the relay. If your relay has this tab on it, you must make sure that that nut is connected to the battery side, not the starter motor side. You can actually see the tab drawn in on the wiring diagram on the starter relay between the battery and the starter.

If your relay does not have the tab, then my guess would be that you need to put 12V onto your "spare" wire. You can just curl it back round to under the battery side nut. I'd pull back the boot to have a look just to be sure.

Again, be very careful! Don't just try this, make sure you know where all the wires are going first.

f.

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Cheers finpos.I was wondering if it mattered which way round those big wires went.

This black wire goes straight to the starter button on the bars via an earth which doesn't look original.

The blue/white wire goes into the flasher relay (it's not just a flasher relay) then onto the second terminal of the starter button.

So basically,i run the blue/white wire directly to the + from the battery and if the selanoid works the bike will start. No start = fooked selanoid ?
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DRZ-400sm

[finpos]

No ne noooooo no no. No.

If you have the relay installed correctly, then all you should need to do is disconnect the blue/white wire then use a spare bit of wire to earth the terminal on the starter relay that you pulled the wire off; the motor should then turn.

Where exactly is the black wire connected to on the starter relay? It sounds like it's been added by somebody to bypass the safety cutout (which is built into the "flasher relay"). Is it connected to the same terminal as the blue/white wire?? and what do you mean "via and earth"? that doesn't make much sense to me

f.

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See attached pic (paint sketch)

The blue/white wire and the black wire don't have connectors on them,the wires go straight into the selanoid through the casing.This wire is original and has definately not been added,although i'm assuming this selanoid is probably not the original for this bike.

Someone has connected a small piece of scrap wire between the black wire and the frame.
(they've literally just removed some of the outer cover and twisted the new wire to it so it has not been cut anywhere and still runs to the starter button as it should) Does that make sense?
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DRZ-400sm

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Managed to have a better look at the wiring this morning...
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DRZ-400sm

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Pics of the actual selanoid...As you can see the whole wiring harness is a bit of a mess

https://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x13/fronterapics/FZ600/wiring/Image676.jpg
https://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x13/fronterapics/FZ600/wiring/Image677.jpg
https://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x13/fronterapics/FZ600/wiring/Image678.jpg
https://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x13/fronterapics/FZ600/wiring/Image679.jpg
https://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x13/fronterapics/FZ600/wiring/Image680.jpg
https://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x13/fronterapics/FZ600/wiring/Image681.jpg
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DRZ-400sm

[finpos]

Hmm. I see. set fire to it.

(will try to return later with something more constructive)

f.

[nowhere.elysium]

Regardless of the cause of the problem, it's definitely time to do something about the state of that wiring loom...
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'10 SV650SF, '83 GS650GT (it lives!), Questionable DIY dash project, 3D Printer project, Lasercutter project

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[finpos]

Right (sleeves up etc.)

If it is wired like you say in your diagram:
1) it won't ever work
2) it never worked in the first place.

How it got like that I will leave to your imagination. But pressing on, what you need to do is this:

1) BREAK the green taped connection on the black wire near the relay, you should now have two bare ends of black wire, left hand goes off to the bike and right hand is connected to the relay.
2) Get your meter and make sure that the left hand bit of wire is a dead short to earth ( I think it is...)
3) Take the right hand bit of wire and connect it to the big fat nut connection on the relay that has the two red wires going to it (one of the two red wires should go off to the battery +ve terminal)

Stand back, press button.

Diagrammatically:

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Cushty i'll try that.

I'm pretty sure that wire your telling me to check is currently not earthed.

Thanks for all your help

I really should read up on auto electrics.
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DRZ-400sm