Just done a IAM Rideout

[Tango675]

Spent this morning with the Milton Keynes chapter of the IAM (motorcycle division). And it was a really good day out!

For those of you that don't know, IAM is the Institute of Advanced Motorists a charity dedicated to "raising driving and riding standards and reducing the number of collisions that occur on our roads."

I did an observed ride with one of the instructors. We took in some really good roads, some of which where gems I would never have found on my own. Picked up some tips (use lower gears, break less) and had a pat on the back for the things I did well.

Am very tempted to sign up and do the test.

All in all a very good thing for anyone to do to keep safe on the roads. I thoughly recomend it.
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Somebody give that windup merchant a torque wrench..

[Skudd]

[Gazz]

I know this is nothing to do with the IAM motorcycle section whatsoever....

But.... I am currently taking the IAM car training (plan on doing the motorcycle one when I am finished) and I find some of what my instructor tells me to be fairly dangerous instead of promoting a safer approach to motoring.

When I tell my girlfriend about what I have done in my 'lessons', she goes mental at me for my unsafe driving.

Some of the things I have done in the last few weeks that I find quite 'unsafe' have been:

1- Accelerating through blind bends on country roads doing just under 60mph.

2- Tailgating a learner driver.

3- Not indicating to move back over the left hand lane.

4- Pushing the cars tyres to the limit in the wet, so it breaks traction a few times.

5- Driving about in 3rd gear at 29 miles per hour.

6 - Trying to use the brake less and just let the cars momentum slow you down instead of showing other cars brake lights.

7- Wait until the revs and about 1000K (car is about to stall) before changing gears.

All of the 7 points I have listed about have all been things that have been pointed out by my instructor and that is the way he wants me to drive. Although I do it, as soon as he is out of the car I go back to driving normally.

I dont mean to put anyone off doing these courses, because I thought it was a good thing to do but I am a bit sceptical now.

[Skudd]

. I think that many IAM people miss read or do not understand what is written in the handbooks, also many go on an ego trip and emphasise the wrong points as what you should do at all times as apposed to, the vehicle is able to do xyz if it has to.
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Famous last words of Humpty Dumpty. " Stop pushing me "
Petty Anarchists look at "1984".............. The Visionary looks at "Animal Farm".

[JP7]

I'm putting some serious thought into doing the Motorcycle IAM test when I've got a bit more riding experience under my belt.

I've been a member of the IAM for a fair few years now for cars, it's well worth doing because it makes your driving smoother, more progressive and safer.

Appreciating it's off-topic, but I was concerned about some of Gazz's queries:

1) You're supposed to be making good progress, but able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear. Blind bends at 60mph, accelerating, doesn't necessarily sound right if you couldn't stop if you found a tractor round the corner.

2) Tailgating should be a no-no, 2 second rule every time. Especially with learners who are unpredictable.

3) You don't always have to indicate, when you've finished your overtake, where else are you going to go, do you need to signal? It's the same when joining a carriageway from a slip-road, you can't go anywhere other than on to the carriageway. The idea is that you've assessed whether or not you need to signal by seeing where everyone else is, and whether they would benefit from a signal. There's also no point indicating if nobody else is about. It proves you've checked.

4) Pushing to the limit in the wet? Other than learning what your car's limits are, I can't see a lot of benefit.

5) 29mph in 3rd can be appropriate. You're doing the speed limit, driving economically and still have the flexibility to brake suddenly or accelerate around any arising problems. (I drive in 4th myself). If you go up an incline you have enough revs to go up, if you go down one you've got enough engine braking to avoid speeding.

6) Braking and accelerating uses a lot of fuel, you drive more progressively and smoothly if you lift off and allow the car to slow itself down. No harm in showing someone your brake lights though.

7) The idea of this one is to make as few gearchanges as possible so you have both hands on the wheel as much as possible. I don't usually go down to 1000rpm though.

Hope that helps a bit, I'm not sure where your observer is going with some of his ideas, but it sounds like he's not explaining himself very well!

[Tango675]

TBH I do have a few issues with some of the things that IAM's teaches and different instructors will teach to a different standard.

BUT - Any additional training over and above just passing your bike test is a good thing and something anyone who whats to be a better rider should consider.

But as you have drawn me in!

The breaking less is more to do with anticipation and keeping things smooth. If you need to use the breaks do, but often if you just slow down and antisipate you wont need to.

A brilliant example of this is a roundabout. Time it right and you won't need to stop, however most people hammer the breaks on the line and then look.

Gazz - if you are not happy with your instructor, I would ask another instructor what he thinks. And if you are being asked to drive in a way you feel is unsafe - simply say no and explain why you feel its unsafe.
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Somebody give that windup merchant a torque wrench..

[Flip]

[Tango675]

[Skudd]

[Flip]

[G]

When I did bikesafe they were very up on no-brakes, just use engine braking. When I mentioned this to local IAM group they said "don't be silly, that's what brakes are for" .

[Polarbear]

My wife did the IAM from milton keynes. Improved her riding 100 fold. I was well impressed on her skills after the course.

And now she has an IAM discount off her insurance.......I don't.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[Flip]

[G]

If nothing else, to me it seems silly to intentionally just use the less-effective wheel for braking. Ok, you're less likely to have big issues just using engine braking if it hits something slippy as it won't lock up totally.
However, it does mean the wheel may be nearer it's limits of traction than the front might be. Also, it gets you out of the habit of using the front brake, which is also a bad idea, to my mind.

As I've said before, when I did bikesafe the police person complimented me after I lost him navigating a set of tight quite blind bends without touching my brakes.
It would have been much safer to have gone the same speed using the front brake, though was an interesting challenge not to.

[Flip]

[Kickstart]

[Mac_Black]

For a long time now I've been using engine braking rather than actual use of the brakes, glad to know that this is taught...
Of course personally I'll apply a flick to the brakes just to engage the light but only when I feel it is necessary,
braking all the time is unnecessary and people use them at the worst times only making other road users slow down and clogging up the roads for everyone as a result.

[map]

I've done the bikesafe course.
Emphasis there was on the smooth riding. So you looked ahead and made sure you were in the right gear. Brake as and when required.
They were also police riders so it was brake first then get in the right gear for the new speed. However, IIRC that was for town work, junctions, lights etc. For open road it was the smooth riding, forward observation, using the whole of the road, etc. basically no last minute braking.

I've tried to do go along to the IAM but local group starts runs at 10am on Saturday and TBH I do have a job and a life so have found it impossible to go along for that time. It would also appear they do nothing organised after September until Easter, so how do you learn winter riding?
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...and the whirlwind is in the thorn trees, it's hard for thee to kick against the pricks...
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[stinkwheel]

I work on the principle that I do more miles than most of the people who would be asessing me, I do them all year round and I'm still alive.

There is also a degree of inflexability, if it says it in the book, it is so.

They'd have hated me on my MZ. Dragged the front brake into every corner, sometimes using it on the way through the corner while accelerating to preload the suspension more and turn sharper.

I suspect they would have hated this.

The other thing I noticed with both police and IAM is they do tend to ride in a very low gear all the time.

I'll downshift when I see something ocurring to make it more responsive but the fact is, an engine doing 8,000rpm is going to wear out twice as fast and use more fuel than one doing 4,000rpm to achieve the same speed.

I would also have thought the weapon of choice of most IAM members (heavy armour-grade, boxer engined BMWs) would respond to this revvy style of riding least well of anything. Both because revving a BMW doesn't really achieve much more than not revving it and they are an ancient engine design with less than ideal valve seats.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[LeeR]

I reckon you should brake when appropriate, I think it's Not The Blue Book that says something along the lines "...it'd be foolish not to use something effective that was at your disposal.." (I'll check that when I get home).

Whilst it's good to plan ahead and use your engine to brake, there's benefit in letting the driver/rider behind you know that you are slowing down, especially as they may not be as observant or "skilled" as you.

Personally I will trail front and rear brakes in bends if I think I need to, I will also dab the rear just to show whoever is behind that I am slowing down, especially when I'm using my engine to brake.

I'm in two minds re:IAM/RoSPA as I don't want to enter into some obligatory process that just means I've made the grade.

I don't think that it should be about meeting a standard on a given day that I may not agree with in it's entirety, and for some of the examples given I definitely disagree.

For me I'd much rather take the best of what I can learn from whatever source and enhance my riding that way.

I don't need a badge, or insurance discount, I need the well informed confidence to know that I am doing the best I can to preserve my life and not endanger others.
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My claim to fame: Austin Vince nicked my pen...

[Fbyte]

I did my IAM test a year ago, did about 7 to 8 observed rides before taking the test (which is normally done by a ex-police rider)

The IAM method teach you how to be more safe on the roads, which I guess is always a good thing. Is up to you how to use what you learn.

In my first ride my observer told me.

right now you can take this bend at 40mph and be 90% safer, after the course you would be 120% safer, so is up to you to decided how to spend that "extra" safety
... do you want to still be 90% and go take it at 50mph, or keep the ultra safe 120%...
I hope you get the idea 8)

BTW: You should indicate only when is beneficial to other road users (pedestrian included
"turn signals: ... use them if necessary ..."

[G]

[Polarbear]

^^^^+1

If you don't indicate cause you haven't seen anything then have a accidet, you get the blame??.....

Better to just indicate automatically I'd have thought.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[stinkwheel]

I often don't indicate because nobody takes a blind bit of notice anyway.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Kickstart]

Hi

To me half the point of indicating is to let anyone know who has managed to avoid your observation. After all if there is someone preventing you from making the manoevre then you shouldn't do it, indicator on or not.

All the best

Keith
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