Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Honda to launch first dual clutch gearbox for motorcycle

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> Biking News & Rumours Goto page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

Fahd
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:08 - 08 Sep 2009    Post subject: Honda to launch first dual clutch gearbox for motorcycle Reply with quote

Taken from here...

https://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/08/honda-to-launch-first-ever-dual-clutch-gearbox-for-motorcycles-w/
____________________
I Ride: Honda CBR 400RR.
I Drive: Audi S3.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:56 - 09 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does it mean a fully automatic system as in 'stick it in drive' or a system where you don't have to clutch or shut off the throttle, just shift?
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Frost
World Chat Champion



Joined: 26 May 2004
Karma :

PostPosted: 02:14 - 10 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's probably a formula 1 style near instant gear change system. Clutch A does 1st, 3rd, 5th, Clutch B does 2nd, 4th, 6th. Then to change gear you disengage one clutch and engage the other.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Alexio
World Chat Champion



Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 02:28 - 10 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not seeing the point... either it's for the lazy, those with less skill or want to have less fun or those who really want to add weight and complexity to their engines?
____________________
will never give up his CG. I look at my fuel gauge more as a progress bar than a fuel gauge.
G: With my GSXR I do often effectively use it as a scooter with a clutch in town.
ms51ves3: why does it need 500 miles? Are you teaching it how to be a piston?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Peter3hg
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 10:05 - 11 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alexio wrote:
I'm not seeing the point... either it's for the lazy, those with less skill or want to have less fun or those who really want to add weight and complexity to their engines?


On a big touring bike it makes perfect sense. Don't forget that a lot of the dual clutch cars are actually quicker than the normal manual versions.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

ajb
Crazy Courier



Joined: 14 May 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:10 - 11 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw a video on MCN and it makes perfect sense.

It's semi-auto and auto (you can choose) I beleive it's a variant of the transmission on the DN-01.

A.- Great for touring bikes;
B.- The bike does not unsettle itself during the gear change, it is completely seamless, this is beneficial for greater control of the bike;
C.- Which makes it possible to change gear whenever (eg. in a corner).
____________________
CBR125R '05 > CB500 '00 > CBR600F '99
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Alexio
World Chat Champion



Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:09 - 11 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you except on your last point, because you can change gear while in a corner if you know how to control your clutch with a normal gearbox.
____________________
will never give up his CG. I look at my fuel gauge more as a progress bar than a fuel gauge.
G: With my GSXR I do often effectively use it as a scooter with a clutch in town.
ms51ves3: why does it need 500 miles? Are you teaching it how to be a piston?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

st3v3
Super Spammer



Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:38 - 12 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

ajb wrote:
I saw a video on MCN and it makes perfect sense.

It's semi-auto and auto (you can choose) I beleive it's a variant of the transmission on the DN-01.


A.- Great for touring bikes;
B.- The bike does not unsettle itself during the gear change, it is completely seamless, this is beneficial for greater control of the bike;
C.- Which makes it possible to change gear whenever (eg. in a corner)
.
1st point, is that if you want an auto, get a twist and go. Manual's are manuals, with gear levers as god intended.
Semi auto's are a fucking ridiculous idea, I just fucking hate them myself.


It doesn't matter what 'technology' or 'improved/beneficial' mechanics they slip into a bike, if you're a shit rider then you're a shit rider and if you can't change gear mid corner without falling off you shouldn't be riding. - A clutch system to make sure you can do this is restricting Darwinism and 'the selection process' meaning we end up with retarded bikers. Fail.
____________________
Roger wrote: Women don't get damp for clingy puppies. Get some better happy pills, hit the gym & buy a medallion the size of a dinner plate. Job done
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

colin1
Captain Safety



Joined: 17 Feb 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:28 - 13 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

It works as an auto when you cant be bothered to change gears, but the control of a manual, when you want it.

It makes sense on big touring bikes.
____________________
colin1 is officially faster than god
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Noxious89123
World Chat Champion



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:30 - 13 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

colin1 wrote:
It works as an auto when you cant be bothered to change gears, but the control of a manual, when you want it.

It makes sense on big touring bikes.


+1

For a sports bike, I think it would be useless; You can make fast gear changes anyway, you don't need a dual clutch to do it like on some modern sports cars.

For a tourer or commuter, it seem's like a brilliant idea.
____________________
'06 Honda CBR125RW-6 ~ '00 Honda CBR600F-Y ~ '07 Honda CBR600RR-7 ~ Bikeless Sad
'53 Ford Ka 1.3 ~ '03 Vauxhall Astra SRi 1.8 ~ '52 Vauxhall Astra SRi 2.2 ~ '53 Vauxhall Astra GSi
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Irn-Bru
World Chat Champion



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:58 - 13 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buy a scooter if you can't be arsed to change gears, they'll be a hell of a lot cheaper.
____________________
KTM 990 SMT & Suzuki DR-Z 400 SM
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

c-m
World Chat Champion



Joined: 12 May 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:19 - 13 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alexio wrote:
I'm not seeing the point... either it's for the lazy, those with less skill or want to have less fun or those who really want to add weight and complexity to their engines?


Seamless shift is always going to be quicker. So you don't see the point in a quicker bike? If it doesn't make any sense, why do formula one teams run similar systems?

Watch the official Honda video, it also substantially reduces movement of the bike during shifting.

I will agree though it could add weight and will certainly add complexity.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Alexio
World Chat Champion



Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:46 - 13 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

c-m wrote:
Alexio wrote:
I'm not seeing the point... either it's for the lazy, those with less skill or want to have less fun or those who really want to add weight and complexity to their engines?


Seamless shift is always going to be quicker. So you don't see the point in a quicker bike? If it doesn't make any sense, why do formula one teams run similar systems?

Watch the official Honda video, it also substantially reduces movement of the bike during shifting.

I will agree though it could add weight and will certainly add complexity.


True, I am now definitely seeing some advantages where racing is concerned, but not on your everyday ride where you're not exactly on the knifes edge. After watching some of those on-board laps from the TT though, my brain is having a hard time imagining how much more speed people can push out of a motorbike without killing themselves. And in one of those types of races you really wouldn't want any extra weight I think.
____________________
will never give up his CG. I look at my fuel gauge more as a progress bar than a fuel gauge.
G: With my GSXR I do often effectively use it as a scooter with a clutch in town.
ms51ves3: why does it need 500 miles? Are you teaching it how to be a piston?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 17:08 - 13 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why are they so good for touring bikes? I have had wings for years and never had a problem changing gear. FFS its not exactly racing changes on a tourer, so I still can't see the point.

If anyone can explain it in simple terms so I can understand why its so brilliant I would appreciate it.
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Noxious89123
World Chat Champion



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:22 - 13 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's because you can be lazy, which is good if you have to cover large distances.
____________________
'06 Honda CBR125RW-6 ~ '00 Honda CBR600F-Y ~ '07 Honda CBR600RR-7 ~ Bikeless Sad
'53 Ford Ka 1.3 ~ '03 Vauxhall Astra SRi 1.8 ~ '52 Vauxhall Astra SRi 2.2 ~ '53 Vauxhall Astra GSi
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Alexio
World Chat Champion



Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:40 - 13 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

But come on.... on long distances just how often do you have to change gear?
____________________
will never give up his CG. I look at my fuel gauge more as a progress bar than a fuel gauge.
G: With my GSXR I do often effectively use it as a scooter with a clutch in town.
ms51ves3: why does it need 500 miles? Are you teaching it how to be a piston?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Noxious89123
World Chat Champion



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:58 - 13 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

True...

Suppose it would actually be better for commuting, with all the stop starting.
____________________
'06 Honda CBR125RW-6 ~ '00 Honda CBR600F-Y ~ '07 Honda CBR600RR-7 ~ Bikeless Sad
'53 Ford Ka 1.3 ~ '03 Vauxhall Astra SRi 1.8 ~ '52 Vauxhall Astra SRi 2.2 ~ '53 Vauxhall Astra GSi
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

ms51ves3
Super Spammer



Joined: 07 Jun 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:34 - 13 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the idea.

The only thing I wonder is when in automatic mode, can you use the throttle like the kick down on an automatic car? So say you want to overtake, just blip the throttle and it will drop a gear or two.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Alexio
World Chat Champion



Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:50 - 13 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

ms51ves3 wrote:
I like the idea.

The only thing I wonder is when in automatic mode, can you use the throttle like the kick down on an automatic car? So say you want to overtake, just blip the throttle and it will drop a gear or two.


This is the kinda thing you sacrifice with automatic isn't it? No dropping down gear for more torque and faster acceleration and no deciding what revs you're going to cruise at. It's not going to be terrible but it will be taking away what will occasionally be very important to you.

And finally, what about engine braking / slipping the clutch braking down the gears for emergency stops?
____________________
will never give up his CG. I look at my fuel gauge more as a progress bar than a fuel gauge.
G: With my GSXR I do often effectively use it as a scooter with a clutch in town.
ms51ves3: why does it need 500 miles? Are you teaching it how to be a piston?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Noxious89123
World Chat Champion



Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:38 - 14 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd imagine that you could just stamp down on the gear lever and have it change down?

Would be interested to know how you switch modes. Button on the left bar, right bar or something a bit more complex?
____________________
'06 Honda CBR125RW-6 ~ '00 Honda CBR600F-Y ~ '07 Honda CBR600RR-7 ~ Bikeless Sad
'53 Ford Ka 1.3 ~ '03 Vauxhall Astra SRi 1.8 ~ '52 Vauxhall Astra SRi 2.2 ~ '53 Vauxhall Astra GSi
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

st3v3
Super Spammer



Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:56 - 14 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can bang on about faster changes all year, fact is it's not needed unless you're competing in the GP.
____________________
Roger wrote: Women don't get damp for clingy puppies. Get some better happy pills, hit the gym & buy a medallion the size of a dinner plate. Job done
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

ms51ves3
Super Spammer



Joined: 07 Jun 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:14 - 14 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noxious89123 wrote:
I'd imagine that you could just stamp down on the gear lever and have it change down?

Would be interested to know how you switch modes. Button on the left bar, right bar or something a bit more complex?


All explained in this lovely video.

Clicky
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Alexio
World Chat Champion



Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:39 - 14 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

ms51ves3 wrote:
Noxious89123 wrote:
I'd imagine that you could just stamp down on the gear lever and have it change down?

Would be interested to know how you switch modes. Button on the left bar, right bar or something a bit more complex?


All explained in this lovely video.

Clicky


Yes but what we were talking about is IF it was in fully auto mode, not semi auto. How fast would your reactions have to be in an emergency to suddenly switch the bike to semi auto mode or manual mode to be able to use the gears to get you out of a situation?

Also that video is definitely marketing crap. The comparison of using one clutch manually and their dual clutch automatically is just stupid. Firstly it looked like the person using the bike during the manual demonstration was accelerating slower than the bike was capable of (especially when contrasting with the auto bit) and then takes forever to re-engage the clutch, or rather does it much more slowly than is possible.

Secondly: what about clutch-less shifting? Where's the real time comparison video between clutch-less and full auto acceleration?

Thirdly: If you keep the throttle on and pull in the clutch incredibly fast, shift up and start slipping the clutch immediately that "lurch" you get from the normal gear box will be much much less noticeable. Again this may have something to do with the rider taking their time with the clutch in the video as stated above. However I haven't done much clutch-less shifting so I can't recall if it makes the bike move as much?

Finally: It appears to me that they are trying to make a bike that appeals to people who can't ride a sports bike because they don't have the skill to do so but still want to ride a powerful sports bike. These people won't have the same appreciation for what biking is and I sure wouldn't want them on the road on a powerful bike anyway!

Ok, now I'm just ranting for the sake of it... I apologise. This is far too fun to criticize. Laughing I'm loving the technology truth be told, just not the way it's going to be marketed and received and how far this will put the rider away from what makes biking biking.
____________________
will never give up his CG. I look at my fuel gauge more as a progress bar than a fuel gauge.
G: With my GSXR I do often effectively use it as a scooter with a clutch in town.
ms51ves3: why does it need 500 miles? Are you teaching it how to be a piston?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

ms51ves3
Super Spammer



Joined: 07 Jun 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:29 - 15 Sep 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alexio wrote:
...and how far this will put the rider away from what makes biking biking.


Biking is different to different people though.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
mackinroj This post is not being displayed because it has a low rating (Spam). Unhide this post / all posts.
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 16 years, 116 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> Biking News & Rumours All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.18 Sec - Server Load: 0.48 - MySQL Queries: 13 - Page Size: 133.44 Kb