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| Mystery |
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Mystery
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Joined: 23 Jul 2009
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 Posted: 13:26 - 17 Sep 2009  Post subject: could this affect us in the future? |
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https://uk.cars.yahoo.com/drive-smart/article/587/
its maybe coming in for cars maybe soon but would it affect us bikers?
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Carbon knuckles assure you maximum protect against debris and unfortunate accidents or if someone cuts you off, their side mirror.Mopeds are like chubby chicks.. they are really fun to ride until you're friends catch you on one |
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| Kickstart |
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Kickstart
The Oracle
Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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| Posted: 13:31 - 17 Sep 2009 Post subject: |
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Hi
It has been trialed on a bike but was pretty lethal and dropped. The bike trial was very late compared to the car trials as the guy running it thought that bikes should just be banned.
Whether there being no suitable system for bikes would be used as an excuse to stop people riding bikes is another question.
Not sure how old that article is, but there was a large scale trial on cars carried out years ago. Difficult to find out much info as it seems those who took part were subject to some kind of non disclosure agreement. Have heard tales of one who was involved and which basically said the equipment was pretty lethal with how it cut speeds on a change of speed limit (even when someone was half way through overtaking).
All the best
Keith
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Kickstart
The Oracle
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| Posted: 13:48 - 17 Sep 2009 Post subject: |
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Hi
Found the comments from a sufferer of ISA (volunteer) and the comments of Oliver Carsten (OC) defending against those issues:-
| Quote: |
Volunteer: "The computer controlled the throttle and the brakes. It did it by access to a digital map, supplied by the county council, I believe, who obviously thought that if they got within 20 or so yards of the speed limit signs, that was OK, so suddenly, you brake in front of the car behind, well in advance of the speed limit signs. I got a lot of rude gestures from other drivers."
OC: "Presumably this participant took part in one of the Leicestershire trials. We are aware of issues with the locational accuracy of the limit changes in the Leicestershire map which we obtained from the county council. This database was not created by them specifically for the ISA project, and was arguably not sufficiently accurate to be ideal for use with an intervening ISA system. We only became aware of the problem rather late in the day - too late to revise the map for the trials."
Volunteer: "Worse still, was that if I was already braking for the
speed limit and the system tried to brake as well, the car slowed very quickly; it must be some hydraulic valve somewhere that got opened by twice as much or something."
OC: "The additional braking was quite limited and involved a `virtual foot' operating on the brake pedal. Other participants have not made similar comments."
Volunteer:?Other problems were that the computer would suddenly, without warning reboot itself and cut all power to the engine other than tick over speed, this happened on a roundabout once and someone nearly went into the back."
OC: "Minor glitches are inevitable in any pre-production or trial system. Generally the ISA system was extremely reliable."
Volunteer: "If you override the system, either by pressing the accelerator to the floor or by pressing the opt out button on the steering wheel, it only overrides until either you slow down enough to be within the speed limit, or, really bad, this one, until you pass into a different limit. I was on a dual carriageway which was coming to an end and I wanted to overtake a lorry. I pressed the opt out button and went above the 70 limit. As I pulled in front of the lorry, the limit changed to 60 and the car put the brakes on. Rude gestures again."
OC: "That was indeed the way the system was designed to operate. We wanted to prevent a single override of the system resulting in the system subsequently being off for a considerable time. Drivers knew the behaviour of the system and one might have expected an aware driver not to have started to overtake injudiciously and with a risk of doing well over 70 in a 60 zone."
Volunteer: "The system is only as good as its digital map and some roads even had the wrong speed limit, like one I used almost everyday which is a 50 limit but the car said 60 and would have allowed me to go at 60."
OC: "This again points to the need for the speed limit map to be accurate and up-to-date. Our map was reliant on the information we received from the county council."
Volunteer: "Another problem is that when you reach the maximum speed limit, say 30mph and do not lift off the accelerator, it isn't a nice smooth speed, like a cruise control. The engine is constantly let to go up a bit and then slowed down a bit, it is like when engines used to hunt, so to be comfortable, you couldn't drive it at the maximum, it makes you feel sick and I don't know what it would do to the fuel consumption, being off and on the gas like that.
OC: "Again such anomalies are to be expected in test system fitted to a car already in production. The issue is discussed in our reports. A
true production system would have smoother control."
Volunteer: "What this system would be good as is as an advisory system, to bleep when the speed limit is being broken. You could not complain about being done for speeding, if you ignored it, could you."
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No doubt for many getting given a free car for a few months would have made them happier with having to put up with the faults.
All the best
Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing |
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| Mystery |
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Mystery
World Chat Champion
Joined: 23 Jul 2009
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| Posted: 13:50 - 17 Sep 2009 Post subject: |
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| Kickstart wrote: | Hi
Found the comments from a sufferer of ISA (volunteer) and the comments of Oliver Carsten (OC) defending against those issues:-
| Quote: |
Volunteer: "The computer controlled the throttle and the brakes. It did it by access to a digital map, supplied by the county council, I believe, who obviously thought that if they got within 20 or so yards of the speed limit signs, that was OK, so suddenly, you brake in front of the car behind, well in advance of the speed limit signs. I got a lot of rude gestures from other drivers."
OC: "Presumably this participant took part in one of the Leicestershire trials. We are aware of issues with the locational accuracy of the limit changes in the Leicestershire map which we obtained from the county council. This database was not created by them specifically for the ISA project, and was arguably not sufficiently accurate to be ideal for use with an intervening ISA system. We only became aware of the problem rather late in the day - too late to revise the map for the trials."
Volunteer: "Worse still, was that if I was already braking for the
speed limit and the system tried to brake as well, the car slowed very quickly; it must be some hydraulic valve somewhere that got opened by twice as much or something."
OC: "The additional braking was quite limited and involved a `virtual foot' operating on the brake pedal. Other participants have not made similar comments."
Volunteer:?Other problems were that the computer would suddenly, without warning reboot itself and cut all power to the engine other than tick over speed, this happened on a roundabout once and someone nearly went into the back."
OC: "Minor glitches are inevitable in any pre-production or trial system. Generally the ISA system was extremely reliable."
Volunteer: "If you override the system, either by pressing the accelerator to the floor or by pressing the opt out button on the steering wheel, it only overrides until either you slow down enough to be within the speed limit, or, really bad, this one, until you pass into a different limit. I was on a dual carriageway which was coming to an end and I wanted to overtake a lorry. I pressed the opt out button and went above the 70 limit. As I pulled in front of the lorry, the limit changed to 60 and the car put the brakes on. Rude gestures again."
OC: "That was indeed the way the system was designed to operate. We wanted to prevent a single override of the system resulting in the system subsequently being off for a considerable time. Drivers knew the behaviour of the system and one might have expected an aware driver not to have started to overtake injudiciously and with a risk of doing well over 70 in a 60 zone."
Volunteer: "The system is only as good as its digital map and some roads even had the wrong speed limit, like one I used almost everyday which is a 50 limit but the car said 60 and would have allowed me to go at 60."
OC: "This again points to the need for the speed limit map to be accurate and up-to-date. Our map was reliant on the information we received from the county council."
Volunteer: "Another problem is that when you reach the maximum speed limit, say 30mph and do not lift off the accelerator, it isn't a nice smooth speed, like a cruise control. The engine is constantly let to go up a bit and then slowed down a bit, it is like when engines used to hunt, so to be comfortable, you couldn't drive it at the maximum, it makes you feel sick and I don't know what it would do to the fuel consumption, being off and on the gas like that.
OC: "Again such anomalies are to be expected in test system fitted to a car already in production. The issue is discussed in our reports. A
true production system would have smoother control."
Volunteer: "What this system would be good as is as an advisory system, to bleep when the speed limit is being broken. You could not complain about being done for speeding, if you ignored it, could you."
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No doubt for many getting given a free car for a few months would have made them happier with having to put up with the faults.
All the best
Keith |
thanks for the keith interesting to read, would be funny if cars got it and bikes never but who knows
____________________
Carbon knuckles assure you maximum protect against debris and unfortunate accidents or if someone cuts you off, their side mirror.Mopeds are like chubby chicks.. they are really fun to ride until you're friends catch you on one |
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Dr. DaveJPS
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Kickstart
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Mystery
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Alexio
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| Posted: 14:54 - 18 Sep 2009 Post subject: |
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I remember watching a program about this a while ago and it was ultimately judged to be incredibly unsafe because the majority of drivers would start to lazily treat their cars like a bumper car or a go kart. Basically it was just foot flat against the floor all of the time. This meant that rather than the driver judging the speed they feel the most comfortable and safe at, they were simply always going the maximum possible speed under law.
Also, any automatic system that uses your brakes for you is certainly a death trap, more so on a bike.
I've had a couple of problems with my CG to do with my brakes actually. I seem to be able to stop my bike (it is rather light) quite a bit faster than many cars that follow far too close behind me. This means I'm forced to brake earlier and more slowly than I would like coming up to a junction or the car behind me seems as if it would just go right in to the back of me. Why are disk brakes just so damn effective? 
I'm always afraid when I have had to do an emergency stop with traffic behind me 
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will never give up his CG. I look at my fuel gauge more as a progress bar than a fuel gauge.
G: With my GSXR I do often effectively use it as a scooter with a clutch in town.
ms51ves3: why does it need 500 miles? Are you teaching it how to be a piston? |
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Skudd
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Kickstart
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| Posted: 15:14 - 18 Sep 2009 Post subject: |
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Hi
Might be better to reduce the number of places where a speed limit changes with little or no need, or where a higher speed is perfectly safe but just not legal (eg, a dual carraigeway I used to use regularly which landed up as a 30 limit for years as it had street lighting but nobody had done the bureaucracy to set it up as an NSL road).
All the best
Keith
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bikedemon99
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| Posted: 20:24 - 18 Jan 2010 Post subject: |
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Its dangerous but its just a matter of time til we'll have no control over anything we do when the state has complete control, its getting worse and worse just chipping away at us with new laws and mind control brainwashing us in to believing certain behaviour is wrong, I fuckin hate the state and I'm willing to make a stand, who's with me haha 
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| Posted: 14:04 - 19 Jan 2010 Post subject: |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 15 years, 340 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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