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| Mr Hammers |
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Mr Hammers
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 Posted: 16:30 - 29 Sep 2009  Post subject: BT45s Vs BT21s |
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Long story short, ended up replacing my worn BT45s with BT21s, front and rear on the Bandit.
Before, I had a lot of confidence in both BT45 tyres, particularly the rear, whereas now I'm not feeling the same amount at all.
As I understand it, the 21s are longer lasting, and so therefore probably less grippy, but as they're newer technology tyres I thought they'd be as good as the 45s at least, if not better.
They're quite good, but the rear doesn't feel quite so planted as the old 45, and sometimes it feels like the front is too quick to turn in and as if the steering is having to turn more than it should have to to go around a corner. Can't describe what I mean too well with that, but it sort of feels like it's being pushed around the corners rather than going around naturally... if that makes any sense...?
They are scrubbed in nicely now, but as I haven't had chance for a good long hoon to get them really warmed up, more than on my usual commute, I'm wondering if they will start improving considerably, once they're nice and hot on a good run?
Has anyone had experience of both 21s and 45s, and if so what did you find with them?
Cheers!
Oh, lastly, the bloke said that they are self-balancing tyres (little yellow dot to match up with the valve position) but I noticed today he didn't take off the old weights. Am I ok in removing them, as I assume they were for the old tyres, rather than for the wheel itself..?
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Kickstart
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garth
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| Bigbaggiesbik... |
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| Blau Zedong |
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| Mr Hammers |
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Mr Hammers
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| Posted: 10:48 - 30 Sep 2009 Post subject: |
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| Kickstart wrote: | However not sure any tyre is "self balancing". |
He seemed quite sure that they were, but I think I trust you more than I do him, tbh... 
| Kickstart wrote: | Sure quite often you will get away without balancing a wheel / tyre, but not always. |
Hmm, well, it doesn't *feel* out of balance right now, so not sure if I should pull off the weights off. I certainly won't have chance to get them balanced for a while, so I might just try that and see what effect it has. If it starts getting uber-wobbly I can always stick them back on till I can get them done properly, I suppose.
| garth wrote: | just took bloody ages to warm up. |
That's what I thought, need to go for a good long run and see how good/warm they do get.
| garth wrote: | BT45s and they actually impressed me, for what they are |
Yup, I found the 45s very good, and in the wet. Had total faith in the rear all the time. Didn't last very long though...
| mr jamez wrote: | Conti road attacks > BT45. |
Might think about trying those next time round, but I've heard mixed reports.
| bigbaggiesbiker wrote: | Could this be a mental thing? |
Possibly some, yes, except there's a certain corner I know very well, and the rear 21 did slip a bit the other day, whereas I've never had any slip before on the 45. But you might be right, maybe there's still some 'getting used to' to go yet.
| chris red wrote: | I always though BT45 where for lower capacy bikes popular with 125's and 500's |
Really? Not sure about that. I know a few other Bandit riders who swear by the 45s, and as I said, they certainly coped very well on the Bandit.
| sickpup wrote: | Are radial tyres even recommended on the Bandit6? |
Good question! When it was MOT'd and he called me to let me know the rear was close to the limit, I said put another 45 on. He said he didn't have any 45s, but he did have one similar, and cheaper. It was an Exedra. Not knowing what it was like, I said go ahead. It was only after riding home I found I really couldn't get on with it at all. Horrible, horrible tyre. Fine if you're a courier, and racking up zillions of miles, but no good for grip at all, especially compared to the 45.
So, he agreed to take it back, but said they shouldn't put another 45 on the rear, as the front tyre (BT45 as well) was a radial, and I shouldn't mix them (I still can't see how a front BT45 can be a radial, and a rear BT45 can be a cross-ply tbh, but there you go...).
So between us we came up with a decent deal to replace the front as well as the back with BT21s, which as I understand it, are both radials. I looked on Bridgestones site, but couldn't find anything to say they should or shouldn't go on a Bandit 6.
My question then, (instead of answering yours..) would be what the difference is? I don't mean the difference in actual tyre construction, I understand that already, I mean why might radials not be suited to a Bandit 6..?
Edit: Cheers for all the replies, guys, very helpful. 
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| Fawbish |
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Fawbish
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| Posted: 11:08 - 30 Sep 2009 Post subject: |
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I kneedowned, with both knees, on a Speed Four wearing mis-matched BT014 and 21 rear. With full europe touring luggage. I.e. I took it beyond what would be classed as normal fast riding on the road.
The tyre is very capable, dont let yourself think it isnt. Just make sure its warm.
(I WAS on italian roads at the time, in the mountains, and it was hot  )
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Mr Hammers
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| iooi |
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iooi
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Posted: 18:18 - 30 Sep 2009  Post subject: |
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Run the Tyre selectior at the Bridgstone site.
Its comes up with the BT 21 as fitment.
Just check he has supplied the right size and you are running the right pressures.
Might need to play around a bit with them to find something that suits.
Seem to remember a while back, that there were issues with BT 21's and wear on the front causing handling problems. Seems the sides were wearing faster than the middle and causing issues.
Can't quite see where this guy gets the can't fit a BT 45 on the rear when you have one on the front.....
Manufacture's advise is that tyre's should be matched pairs.... Was this guy just trying to get rid of stock he had, rather than order new...
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| Maruchino |
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Maruchino
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Mr Hammers
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| Posted: 20:48 - 30 Sep 2009 Post subject: |
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Cheers, iooi. Searching on the bike I get "No records were found matching your search criteria" and searching by tyre, I get "The request page doesn't exist. Please double check to make sure you have the correct URL.". 
Good job they make tyres better than they make websites...
| Quote: | Its comes up with the BT 21 as fitment. |
Hmm, couldn't find that.
| Quote: | Just check he has supplied the right size and you are running the right pressures.
Might need to play around a bit with them to find something that suits. |
Deffo the right size, same as the previous on both. I've tried different pressures, and about the best for the front I can get is 34-35. Any lower and it starts to fall into corners too much, any higher it feels too hard and feels like it's skipping (although this might be something to do with the front suspension probably needing a good service).
| Quote: | Seem to remember a while back, that there were issues with BT 21's and wear on the front causing handling problems. Seems the sides were wearing faster than the middle and causing issues. |
At the moment it's too early to tell where the wear is, as they're still pretty new... but I'll keep an eye on it.
| Quote: | Can't quite see where this guy gets the can't fit a BT 45 on the rear when you have one on the front.....
Manufacture's advise is that tyre's should be matched pairs.... |
At the time I thought it was odd, but as I wasn't sure if they were crossply or radial, I just took his word for it.
| Quote: | Was this guy just trying to get rid of stock he had, rather than order new... |
Possibly at first, either genuinely trying to save me money with the Exedra, or as you say just trying to shift old stock, but once he saw I wasn't happy at all with the change, he did seem to do everything he could to keep me happy. I'm a fairly regaular customer there too, so I doubt he wants to lose me if he can help it.
| Maruchino wrote: | I've just switched from Dunlop D208's to Bridgstone BT-21's.
I feel exactly the same way, but then again the 21's are supposedly a downgrade in grip from the D208's so I half expected it. |
How long have you had them on, and on what bike? Just wondering if you've got used to them yet, as I'm not sure I ever will to be honest. They're probably as good as they're going to get (although I reserve full judgement till I've had a good long rideout somewhere) and I'd rather the grip back over the longer lasting side of them.
Incidentally, do you find there's a lot of road noise from them? Particularly the front..?
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| Noxious89123 |
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Noxious89123
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| Posted: 21:24 - 30 Sep 2009 Post subject: |
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The BT-021's have a lot more grip than you might think.
And despite what alot of people are saying, they work well at low temperatures and from cold. They're designed to, they're a touring tyre.
When hot though, the sides are soft an sticky enough for anything you'll be doing on the road.
The only bad thing I'll say about them is they wear funny.... I think the change from hard compound in the middle to soft on the sides is too abrupt, or in the wrong place... So I have very flat bits in the middle, and flat sides too..... So i have a sort of ridge where the hard middle area meets the soft side area. Makes it a bit twitchy over lumps and white lines.
But then mine are on the wear markers, and being replaced this weekend. On the whole, I'm pleased with them.
I am replacing them with Michelin Pilot Road 2's, because they seem to be alot more popular, and have been getting alot of good reviews when tested side by side with the 21's.
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Kickstart
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| iooi |
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iooi
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| Posted: 05:39 - 01 Oct 2009 Post subject: |
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[quote] Searching on the bike I get "No records were found matching your search criteria" and searching by tyre, I get "The request page doesn't exist. Please double check to make sure you have the correct URL.". [/url]
Yea i noticed when clicking on tyres you get that......
I just picked one of the GSF 600's > GSF600 Bandit (GN77B) (-'99)
Which gives you [url=GSF600 Bandit (GN77B) (-'99)] This [/url]
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| Mr Hammers |
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Mr Hammers
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| Posted: 10:46 - 01 Oct 2009 Post subject: |
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| chris-red wrote: | Whats the difference between Cross plies and radials? |
The cord, or the 'plies' of cord in a cross ply go from one side of the tyre to the other at an angle, and criss cross over each other. Radial tyres have the plies of cord going at right angles across the tyre, and so therefore don't 'criss cross'. That's why radials look more 'bulgy' and cross-plies look more upright on the tyre wall.
Anyway, there's a more better, more detailed explanation here
| Kickstart wrote: | Legally you can have a radial rear and a cross ply front, but not the other way round. |
I had no idea that was the case. I wonder how many coppers are aware of that law... not many, if any, I bet!
So, while I understand the differences between the two, I still don't really get why some bikes are more suited to cross plies and others to radials. Could you explain, please?
| Noxious89123 wrote: | The BT-021's have a lot more grip than you might think. |
I find that more reassuring than I do the feeback from them going round a corner, tbh Interesting what you said about the wear though. The rear 45 before was worn a lot more in the centre, but that's because I was overdoing the engine braking too much I think, but I'm not being quite so aggressive now, but I'll keep on eye on how they wear.
| Noxious89123 wrote: | I am replacing them with Michelin Pilot Road 2's, because they seem to be alot more popular, and have been getting alot of good reviews when tested side by side with the 21's. |
After reading a lot more on them since, I think I'll be going for the same when these are all done. If I had enough money, I'd even consider changing them now, and keeping the 21s for summer next year, but as it is, I haven't, so I can't.
| iooi wrote: | I just picked one of the GSF 600's > GSF600 Bandit (GN77B) (-'99)
Which gives you [url=GSF600 Bandit (GN77B) (-'99)] This [/url] |
Your link, if that's what you were attempting, doesn't seem to work, iooi. And I tried picking the same bike, and lots of others too actually, but they all came back with no info. It was as if they didn't recommend anything for Suzukis.. 
| Maruchino wrote: | I've had them on for about 1500 miles now. I think they do provide grip but are just not confidence inspiring. |
I think that's probably just about right
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krebsy
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| Posted: 14:01 - 01 Oct 2009 Post subject: |
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BT45's are pretty good and I kept using them on the Divvy.
got the ZZR and it ran fine on the 20's it had on there but when I swapped from them to Dunlop 208's, the difference was marked and it felt much better over all.
Swapped those for some 21's and they never felt as good, plus crashed soon afterwards so never got the feel for them on the Zed.
Running with 21's on the VFR at the moment and they seem to be "ok". Took a bimble around silverstone on them and againe, they were no match for the Dunlops.
Small bike/Hack = 45's FTW.
bigger bike/sports/tourer = 21's for wear, Dunlops for fun.. 
K.
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