Advice for a novice rider/first 'real bike'

[tvchimp]

Hi guys,

First post here so apologies if I start rambling off like a excited teenager.

I'm 22 and I completed my CBT (first try!) just before August and currently own a little 50cc moped (please don't get mad! I hate the thing, but it cost me £200 from a friend, I got it for road experience and the 15minute ride to work). I'm currently getting cash together and hope to have around £1500 for a bike come March/April 2010. I'm looking at a Honda CB600F Hornet as my first real motorbike. I've done quite a lot of research and have a few family members/friends which are old school bikers which have said even though it is a good bike, being a 'naked bike' also means i'll get fatigued quicker while riding, and it isn't as good as other bikes, also, they've mainly said Honda is a better manufacturer to get as a first bike as if something goes wrong, its generally easier/cheaper to fix it yourself.

Also, the main reason for a hornet is that it will be similar to the bike I'll learn on while I do my DAS, and that being a 600cc will give me plenty of power when I need it (1000% more than my current 50cc sewing machine!) and will allow me to go touring around the UK a few days at a time with my dad and friends which they've said they want to do and I want to do at some point once I've got up enough experience.

I've been told I should get a 125, then a 250, then a 400, then a 600 etc to get my road experience up more and that I'm going to be less likely to kill myself. That was by my dad who has been biking for about 15years.

Obviously I'm not stupid and have taken in what he has said, that going from cc to cc will give me more understanding of throttle/clutch control and road presence etc, but I really don't have the cash to be spending on several bikes within the first few years, I'd much rather spend the cash on a 600cc bike (which I don't class as a sports/performance bike or anything of that sort) and get comfortable with it straight away. I'm a big guy so don't want to be on a 50cc much longer, and don't like the idea of jumping on something a slight bit more powerful to be bored with it after 2months (at the moment, I would happily sell my brother for the hornet I'm that bored of the 50cc).

So, the main questions I have are:


1. Is the Honda CB600F Hornet a good bike to begin with as a first proper bike

2. How reliable/easy to fix/comfortable is the Hornet?

3. Is going from a 50cc moped to a 600cc Hornet a good idea, or am I heading for my death straight from the offset?

4. Are there any courses/training schemes I can do to 'enhance' my level of riding? I've read that there is a 'police riding course' I can take?



Thanks for any advice anyone can give me on this long...long post!


Robert.
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Bike: Currently Bikeless... Gahh

[wizzzard]

Welcome to riding and to BCF Robert.

I can't be any help with the maintainance or comfort side of the hornet as I have never riden one but many people do get them as a first bigger bike.

Your already getting road experience on the 50cc so I wouldn't worry about the enhanced schemes just yet until your comfortable with everything but if you fancy it there are:

https://www.bikesafe.co.uk
and
https://www.iam.org.uk/aboutus/IAM+Motorcycling/

Personally speaking I went form a 125 to a 750 with no problems what so ever. If you are sensible and know our own limits then the bike wont go any faster than you want it
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And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?
Zeitgeist / Addendum / Moving forward

[deanoet]

I find my hornet decently comfy. I have ridden all day on it with only a few short breaks for food / petrol / drinks and i was never uncomfy. I dont really have anything to compare it to though, as i went straight from a CG125 to the Hornet
With it being a naked bike you do get more of a wind blast, and if it rains you get very wet as you cant hide behind the fairing. I just settle into a comfy position on motorways and plod along though. Can comfortably hold 90mph.

The hornet is an old design using an old engine. So pretty bullet proof
Things that can go wrong are:
Cam Chain Tensioner = easy fix to DIY
The bottom yolk can rust if the bike is stored outside / not looked after
Rear shock can be passed its best after 20k miles or so

The rest is just usual on bikes. Fork seals etc etc


The jump in cc is up to you, do you trust yourself? Hornets arent the fastest bike out there, but they arent the slowest. "Naked sports" is what Honda call it. It is the CBR600f with no clothes on and a few bits de-tuned (carbs and suspension i think)



I got mine after 6 months on a CG125 and havent looked back.
It has only let me down twice. Once was a puncture, which happens, and the other was cos she was left outside in torrential rain and water flooded the spark plugs (we have since had words and made up, she lives in the shed now)

I even did a track day, binned it at speed, cartwheeling her 5 times smashing the back end up and clocks up
New bits, frame tweeked back in line and working fine again

Starts on the button, rides as good as ever.
truely indestructable


They also have a very good following for upgrades and modifications, even a racing series if you are into that (Hornet Cup)
For all things hornet Hornets Nest is a good site
Friendly and helpful forum


IMO, cant go wrong with a Hornet. Love mine
Only complaint would be the short fuel range. Only holds 17 litres, so 100 - 120 miles and you are on reserve
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CBT Passed 18th July 2007 : Previous Bikes> CG125 : Current Bike> Hornet 600 : PASSED DAS 30th Oct 2007
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[adama]

I think its a nice idea to go up in terms of power, 125 - 250 - 600 etc..But its not really that much of a big deal i suppose. You should be fine on a hornet imo, nice bikes..nice riding position
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Vlogging - www.youtube.com/caprio85

CBT Passed - 24/04/08 - Theory Passed 18/07/08 - Practical Passed 2/04/09

[Progression]

I can't really comment about going from a 50cc to a 600cc but a guy I used to work with had a 600 Hornet. It looked brilliant, (it was denim blue or something) and he really enjoyed riding it to and from work everyday. You could almost see the joy on his face as we clocked off and he got to ride home

Prog

[stinkwheel]

You do know you can legally ride a 125 on L-plates right now?
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[tvchimp]

Thanks for your input guys Much Appreciated!


@stinkwheel

"You do know you can legally ride a 125 on L-plates right now?"

I know I can, I just got the 50cc as it was really cheap and got me on the road quicker than if I had saved up more cash for another few months and got a 125. I was using public transport and it was driving me insane. Haha. Public Transport where I live is shocking!



But.. After a long hard think, I think that I'm going to get a 125cc, then between 6-12months (depending on when I feel really comfortable) I'll move up to a 600+. Spoke to my dad, and he nearly broke into tears at the fact that I wanted a 600cc straight from a 50cc. He really doesn't think I'd be able to handle the power difference (Not to mention the fact that I havent had anything with gears since I did my CBT).

I was tempted to look at something like the Honda CG125, but, even though it is a really nice bike for its comfort/engine etc, I really don't like the look of it. I would rather ride something which ticks all the boxes for me, rather than some, but then makes me not want to ride it because I feel a twat on it and doesn't put a smile on my face.

I thought of getting something like the 125cc Honda Veradero. Not the 2009 model (I'm not made of money!) but probably in the range of 2000-2002 as they're going for around £900-1200 for a good condition bike. (I've attached a pic incase people can't remember what it looks like)

What do people think? Is the Veradero a good bike? Or do I need to bite my tongue and get a CG125? I've read a lot of good reviews, and being a bigger kinda of guy, it suits me down to the ground as it's not the smallest of 125s (I've sat on a NSR125 and felt stupid as it felt like I was sitting on my 5yr old nephews push bike..which is tiny!)


Thanks again
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Bike: Currently Bikeless... Gahh

[adama]

Yeah mate get a 125 to be honest
____________________
Vlogging - www.youtube.com/caprio85

CBT Passed - 24/04/08 - Theory Passed 18/07/08 - Practical Passed 2/04/09

[stinkwheel]

The varadero is a big, capable, solid bike.

I always thought they were a bit OTT for a learner bike but if you're a big guy doing a regular commute on it for a while, it would make sense.

Learner legal bikes tend to hold their value pretty well in any case.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[tvchimp]

Yeah, I've got about a 30mile all round commute to work and back everyday to do, at the moment, its taking me about 45 mins or so to get to work on the 50cc, I reckon I can cut it down easily to 20mins on a 125 not to mention would be a lot more enjoyable!

Thanks for your help guys. I think it will be around Feb when I get the Veradero! Should be a good experience and learning curve. I've already starting planning trips to Newquay and London!
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Bike: Currently Bikeless... Gahh

[Muscle Bike Rider]

I have a Varadero, cracking bike, I'm like a kid in a candy shop with mine. Check this website out, often get decent bikes for sale and its handy for Varadero information.

https://www.125varadero.com/
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Previously Known As A5tra_G
Old Bikes :2010 Kawasaki ER6 F & 2000 Honda VTR Firestorm
Current Bike : XJR1300

[tvchimp]

Ah great site, I've registered with it. Says that an admin on it needs to confirm my registration and then I'll be able to look and post on it!

Really excited about it, I'm currently at work, and have been the most un-productive I think since I've started here last year. I'll make the effort up another day! Haha.

Is there any accesories I should be looking out to get on the Veradero? Such as a belly pan, screen (is the standard screen good enough for daily ride to work?), not wanting to get a hard box for it straight away as I've read hard boxes can affect riding?..
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Bike: Currently Bikeless... Gahh

[Progression]

I'd get a screen if I was commuting. The varadero is supposed to have great handling, so would be interesting to know if a top box affected it in any way.

Prog

[ClaireBear]

Hello,

Reading your story reminded me about my parents lol I bargained with them a bit- told them I would do the A2 test, so I would be going from a 125 and then get a bandit 600 restricted to 33bhp and then 2 years later it can be unrestricted (so it will be like having a new bike!)

You will be so much more comfortable on a 125 and they are a great bike - enjoy it!

[Muscle Bike Rider]

I have a 28L top box on mine which doesent affect the handling, commuting in to work I can filter without any problems, bearing in mind I have a big chain and rucksack in it it feels fine. Handling I find is spot on and the riding position as I've said really gives an excellent view. A givi tall screen (£62) will give more protection from wind and rain, I have one on order and I think it looks quite good. I have seen bikes on the site I gave you with panniers on as well but I think thats a bit to much as it is only a 125 after all, but if your not worried about losing a bit of speed and filtering ability why not.
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Previously Known As A5tra_G
Old Bikes :2010 Kawasaki ER6 F & 2000 Honda VTR Firestorm
Current Bike : XJR1300

[tvchimp]

Ah. Good to know that a top box doesn't affect it. Is it a honda factory fitted top box you have or a givi(or other) make?

I'm not 100% if I will end up getting one, as I have a pretty good rucksack which I use at the moment if I ever need to carry anything (not very often) so would prefere to use that really. Good to know anyway if I ever do choose to get one.

Also, I forgot to ask, but seeing as it is my first real bike, if I decide I want to say, clean up the engine or upgrade something, is it easy enough to do so without much mechanical experience? I want to really build up my mechanical knowledge so would it be a good start to have the Veradero to work on if anything needs changing?
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Bike: Currently Bikeless... Gahh

[stinkwheel]

it's more complex than many 125cc bikes because it has a twin cylinder engine and lots of plastics.

That said, it is also a Honda so it is unlikely to need much more than routine servicing such as oil and filter changes, occasional sparkplugs and the valve clearances once in a blue moon.

Hondas are generally speaking pretty easy to work on becasue they are solidly built in the first place.

I would personally advise against riding wearing a rucksack. Bungee it to the back seat of the bike rather than wearing it.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[GhostRider]

I'll give my 2p worth.

I rode an NSR for a year and a half, have owned my hornet for about 3 months now, and I love the beast. Theres plenty of power there to play with for your regular commuter IMO.

I think you'd be sensible getting a 125 to begin with, they hold their value well and you can decide when you're ready to advance and sell it on, this could be 3 months down the line of 2 years, the choice is yours.

As for feeling the elements more when on a hornet, the only time I noticed a substantial difference was when on the motorway hitting 70+, it was a particularly windy day mind. It doesn't bother me because during my day to day routes and general usage I don't even look in the direction of a motorway, and besides, even if you do intend to hit the motorway on the regular you can buy a bubbleshield to take the edge off the frontal wind blast.

I think the jump from 125 to 600 is sensible enough as long as you know your own capabilities - some experience on your instructors 500 will educate you on this.

GhostRider

[Muscle Bike Rider]

As the two last posters say, its a honda and built to be reliable as long as its serviced regular and you do some general maintence, chain, oil etc. I'm still learning but so far have changed oil & filter, plugs, clutch cable and adjusted my chain. Where I have mine serviced charge £95 for a full service.
Top Box is a Kappa monolock.
____________________
Previously Known As A5tra_G
Old Bikes :2010 Kawasaki ER6 F & 2000 Honda VTR Firestorm
Current Bike : XJR1300

[tvchimp]

I heard that Honda's are pretty bullet proof with what you can do with them and when you have to service them (although I've also read pretty contradicting stories too!).

@stinkwheel, why would you advise not to wear a rucksack? At the moment I do on my moped if I need to carry anything as the underseat storage isn't that big and generally only will fit my chain and my lunch for work (also have a spare spark plug in there...not sure why exactly..It was there when I got it, never took it out).


I'm pretty set on getting the Veradero now, I've been looking on that site you gave me Astra, hopefully will be able to pick up some ideas for a belly pan, hand guards and maybe a tall screen at some point. I can see myself going all over on 'mini-touring trips'.

Also, a kind of stupid question. But whats the main difference between a cg125 engine and a veradero engine, I thought they were both 4 stoke except the veradero is a v-twin? or am I shooting way off the mark?
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Bike: Currently Bikeless... Gahh

[stinkwheel]

For one thing, a rucksack gives you a sore back at higher speeds.

For another, I always worry about what would happen if you crashed wearing one. If you crash at speed, you tend to land up sliding down the road on your back. All your gear is designed for this.

It always seems to me that a rucksack would mean you land up sliding on your front.

The older (proper?) CG125s have an overhead valve engine that uses pushrods to open and close the valves, the cam is located in the bottom of the engine. This is an old fashioned way of doing things but is very simple and reliable. As you correctly stated, it is a single cylinder and air cooled. It has two valves.

The Vardero has, as you say two cylinders arranged in a V shape. They also have an overhead cam, the valves open and close directly off the cam which is located in the top of the engine. This is how almost all modern 4-stroke engines work, it allows the valves to open and close more quickly. It also has two valves per cylinder (total of four) and is liquid cooled rather than air cooled.

Basically, a CG125 engine uses technology that would have been the norm back in the 1950's. It's well proven, well understood and simple. A bit "rough and ready" compared to modern engines though.

A Vardero is a more modern design. It will be smoother, more efficient and potentially capable of producing more power (but not built that way due to learner licencing laws).
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[tvchimp]

Ah ok.

Thats amazing stuff to know, kinda clears my head up as I've been googling it for most of the morning since I got to work and not found anything.

Oh, and I know its a little off-subject. But I currently have an '07 model HJC helmet, was my dads spare which he has worn a few times but didn't like it, gave it to me last year when I was on about getting a motorbike. It's getting kind of tatty and worn so was thinking about getting a new helmet. I like HJC as I have a big head, and they tend to be a bit comfier for me. Are there any helmets I should be taking my eye up on? I was thinking of spending around £130max on it. I know the saying is 'you can't put a price on something which can save your life' but I'm not made of money and want to try save as much as quickly for the Veradero
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Bike: Currently Bikeless... Gahh

[stinkwheel]

Fit is more important than brand.

I personally, from reading about, don't think there is actually much difference in the degree of protection a £500 helmet would give you over a £100 one. The more expensive one will last longer before it needs to be replaced but there have been studies showing a cheap helmet that totally smashes to bits in a crash actually gives you better protection than an expensive one that holds together.

The expensive ones will give you better protection from a second impact but in motorcycle crashes (unlike car ones) you tend to only take one big hit.

It is absolutely certain that a badly fitting £500 helmet will give you significantly less protection than a well fitting £100 one.

So, if you like the HJC and it fits well, no reason to get another one.

As I recall, HJC are the biggest selling helmet manufacturer in the USA.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.